Talk:Primacy of Ireland

Untitled

Would this article be better renamed "Archbishop of Dublin"? I think you will find that this person is more often know by this title. Also he is Primate of Ireland because he is Archbishop of Dublin, not vice versa. Mustafa Bevi 16:03, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the ideal situation would be the following:

• an article called Archbishop of Dublin or two separate articles called Archbishop of Dublin (Church of Ireland) and Archbishop of Dublin (Roman Catholic).
• an article called Primates of Ireland and All Ireland.

The current Primate of All Ireland article would be moved to the latter name; this page's content would be split between the two pages as appropriate. Doops | talk 05:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

This is all a total mess. We should have separate articles on the Catholic and CoI archbishops, and then a separate article on the term Primate of Ireland (or, as you suggest, on both Primate terms). john k 20:45, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Seperate articles is the way to go. -- SECisek 21:47, 19 July 2007 (UTC).

Also agree. Archbishop is the primary role in both denominations. So 2 x Archbishop articles, and Primate separately (1-2 articles). The materials here is not bad, and will give a good start to both. 217.118.66.58 04:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

We have discussed this for months, somebody be bold. -- SECisek (talk) 10:56, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

And I agree too, and it is time enough to act. I will make the two Archbishop articles, and initially one article on the two Primates, with each separate title directed there (as otherwise, to be frank, I think each Primate article would mostly duplicate the other). Then all can be polished and upgraded. SeoR (talk) 07:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

New structure

Archbishop articles made, ready for improvement (overlap between these articles and those of the dioceses probably a good starting point). Will cut the Primate article down, and raise on the Primate of All Ireland talk page the question of a merger, both this afternoon. SeoR (talk) 08:01, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposed merge

Both this article and Primate of All Ireland are in need of editing, to move from opinion to historical fact and to have proper sourcing. Additionally, both articles deal with the same issue: that of the difference (rivalry?) between the two "primacies". I am happy to do the editing, and I would propose to merge the two articles into one, perhaps entitled Primate of Ireland and Primate of All Ireland. Any thoughts? Scolaire (talk) 21:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The problem would be what to call the merged article? Primate of Ireland is out since the Dublin boss has that title. Primate (Ireland) or Primacy of Ireland (or is that still too close to the bone)?

Primate of All Ireland could redirect to Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of Ireland could redirect to Archbishop of Dublin. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 22:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, no. Both should redirect to the merged and moved article. You haven't said what you think of my proposed title: Primate of Ireland and Primate of All Ireland. Scolaire (talk) 10:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sorry! I missed that part! I think Primate of Ireland and Primate of All Ireland is a bit long. if you were *not* going to redirect both pages then I think Primate of Ireland should be the one to stay and Primate of All Ireland should redirect to it. (Reason being that the title Primate of Ireland is the title that is historically being disputed and the title Primate of All Ireland arises from that dispute.)

My reason for saying the current articles should redirect is because the Primate of All Ireland is the Archbishop of Armagh, and the Primate of Ireland is the Archbishop of Dublin. If you didn't redirect the pages then I think you should put a hat note dabbing to the archbishop articles. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 10:34, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

The two are different titles, neither articles are stubs, and the titles refer to different and distinct things. I think that the articles should remain as they are. They do both clearly link to each other, in case someone lands on the wrong article. PsychoInfiltrator (talk) 08:30, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from, but the distinction is more apparent than real. The Primate of Ireland is the Archbishop of Dublin, and the Primate of All Ireland is the Archbishop of Armagh, and these each have their own articles. These two articles are both about the history and significance of the two titles, P of I and P of AI, and therefore they are essentially duplicates. There is no way I can see to make two distinct articles out of them, the overlap is so great. Scolaire (talk) 18:22, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

They should be merged. As before my suggestions is:

• Merge both to Primacy of Ireland or Primate (Ireland) (descriptive title based on content)
• Redirect Primate of Ireland → Archbishop of Dublin (as they are both the same person)
• Redirect Primate of All Ireland → Archbishop of Armagh (as they are both the same person)

... but the important thing is that they be merged. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 04:32, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Been bouled since this had been marked for a long time and I did a rough merge as follows:

• Primate of All Ireland → Primate of Ireland → Primacy of Ireland

Contrary to what I wrote above, I think it is best if Primate of All Ireland and Primate of Ireland point to the merged page (rather than the "Archbishop of ..." pages). This is because there appears to be many links that expect to point at a page about the Primacy as opposed to the Archbishopric. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 12:54, 10 January 2010 (UTC)