Talk:Proton AG

Requested move 12 May 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Proton (Swiss company) (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc.talk 08:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

---

Proton AG → Proton (company) – Proton's customers and the press know the company simply as "Proton", and the suffix AG is irrelevant to people who want to learn about the company on Wikipedia. As this is the English Wikipedia, the term AG does not mean anything to the English speaking audience. In Proton's home country of Switzerland the company is known as either Proton AG (German) or Proton SA (French), depending on the region of the country (as Switzerland has four official languages).

Referring to Proton the company by a corporate designation in a single country does not make sense, since Proton has subsidiaries in multiple countries and goes by multiple name variants, such as:

• ProtonLabs DOOEL Skopje (Macedonia)
• ProtonLabs Taiwan Co. Ltd (Taiwan)
• UAB Proton Research LT (Lithuania)
• Proton Technologies Ltd (United Kingdom)
• Proton Labs s.r.o (Czech Republic)
• Proton Europe sàrl (Luxembourg)
• Proton Germany GmbH (Germany)
• Proton Research Sociedad Limitada (Spain)

For clarity, the page should be moved to Proton_(company).

Moving the page to Proton_(company) also helps people understand that the Proton page is for the company that created Proton Mail, Proton VPN, Proton Drive, Proton Calendar and Proton Pass. The current Proton_AG page does not provide this clarity.

It's comparable to referring to Uber as Uber Technologies Inc, though everyone knows the company as simply "Uber". The page should be moved to Proton_(company) because for the English-speaking audience, the company is widely known as Proton.

Octazooka (talk) 14:44, 12 May 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. >>> Extorc.talk 18:35, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Comment: Octazooka has disclosed that they are being paid by Proton for their contributions (though that doesn't likely affect this request). ~ Eejit43 (talk) 17:13, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

• Strong oppose: The suggested title is ambiguous. There are at least three other companies called "Proton" that are discussed on Wikipedia. The one that is of greatest current readership interest is a different one – Proton Holdings, per this Pageview analysis. Proton (Swiss company) might be worth considering. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:19, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Comment: Given the non-uniqueness of the name "Proton", adding the corporate suffix of the full name may be justifiable as WP:NATDIS. The fact that it has subsidiaries with localized names in other countries is immaterial because the article is about the parent company. However, "AG" vs. "SA" in multilingual Switzerland is an interesting point; can someone familiar with Swiss terminology clarify whether they're used interchangeably in the different languages? 73.223.72.200 (talk) 22:12, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

• Move to Proton (Swiss company). The motor manufacturer is the clear primary redirect for Proton (company). -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:07, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose and Move to Proton (Swiss company) to distinguish from the Malaysian carmaker. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:07, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose "Proton (company)" should be repointed to Proton (disambiguation) and all companies call Proton listed there -- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 06:38, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

  Per the pageviews, Proton Holdings is 100% the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. ~ Eejit43 (talk) 13:52, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

• Strong oppose, Proton Holdings is clearly the primary topic. Either keep at current title or move to Proton (Swiss company) if WP:NATDIS doesn't apply (as brought up by 73.223.72.200) ~ Eejit43 (talk) 13:55, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 15 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Proton (technology company). Clear consensus to move away from the current title, but there was less agreement over what the ideal destination would be. "Proton (Internet company)" and "Proton (technology company)" emerged as the two favorites. I believe the weight of argument slightly favors "Proton (technology company)"; during the discussion, it was noted that four other articles used the "(technology company)" DAB, whereas only one used "(Internet company)", and that one article has since moved to a different DAB anyway. Thus, I see "Proton (technology company)" as marginally more WP:CONSISTENT with similar articles. Precision concerns were also raised about each major proposal, but did not seem to hold much sway in the discussion. On the whole, any consensus that emerged from here is the roughest of rough, so participants should feel free to consider this a WP:NOTCURRENTTITLE close. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:28, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

---

Proton (Swiss company) → Proton (Internet company) –
Global Presence and Perception: While Proton is headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland the services it offers cater to a global audience. Naming a company on Wikipedia based on its headquarters, especially when it is an international entity, may not be the most appropriate. A globally operating company like Proton should be identified by the nature of its business rather than its geographical location.

Comprehensive Representation: Referring to Proton merely as a "Swiss company" can be misleading for readers, as they may assume that its products and services are limited to Switzerland. On the contrary, the company offers a range of internet-based international services like Proton Mail, Proton VPN, and Proton Drive.

Consistency with Other Global Companies: global companies on Wikipedia are named according to the nature of their business or the industry they are part of, rather than their location. This ensures that readers have a clear idea of the company's main focus without potential biases associated with a specific location.

Brief conclusion: renaming the page to "Proton (Internet company)" would provide readers with a more accurate representation of the company's industry, scale, and global presence. 77.179.40.156 (talk) 11:58, 15 August 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. – MaterialWorks 18:23, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

— 77.179.40.156 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:57, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

• Move to Proton (privacy services company). The "Internet company" term seems vague and perhaps could also apply to Proton Radio, since Proton Radio delivers its service exclusively over the Internet. Practically all companies have something to do with the Internet now, and this one isn't an Internet service provider. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:05, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

  @BarrelProof Given Proton's aggressive push to diversify, I don't think they will only stick to privacy services company. Sure, they may say it's privacy respecting (VPN is a proper privacy service if one were to believe marketing claims), but it's more of Office software (email), general purpose software (calendar, drive), security (password manager) etc. However, Proton is a tech/internet company and that feels like a better representation of the subject. Greatder (talk) 14:42, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

• Move to Proton (tech company). I definitely opt for renaming the company, but to Proton (tech company) as Proton is the only notable tech company called Proton. While they provide services like email, VPN, and drive, similar to other tech giants such as Google, Microsoft, and Yahoo, terms like "internet" and "privacy services" are too narrow or overly specific. A general "tech" descriptor would be more appropriate. --94.111.57.62 (talk) 13:24, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

— 94.111.57.62 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:57, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

The article on the company says it is a company "offering privacy-focused online services". As far as I can tell, the company products have a common theme of privacy-related services. I don't think they are among the "tech giants". —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:57, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

So, you think a company that manufactures cars isn't a technology company? I beg to differ! -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:19, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

• Support Proton (Internet company) seems fine. Proton (tech company) feels a bit of weasel word-y, but that's fine too. Privacy services not so much, since it seems more like a diversified company with general purpose services. Greatder (talk) 14:44, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
• Move to Proton (technology company) or to Internet or tech. Proton has hit 100M users so it's a pair to big tech companies like Yahoo, Google, etc. LamDoom (talk) 13:20, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

The article says the company has 400 employees. It is not a "tech giant" or a "big tech" company. Google, Microsoft and Yahoo are all much much bigger companies. Yahoo is about 20 times that size, and Microsoft and Google are several hundred times that large. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:19, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: There's a clear consensus to move away from the current title, but a consensus for what disambiguator should be picked would be good too. – MaterialWorks 18:23, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

I can't find any Wikipedia articles that use "(tech company)" in their title. I found four that use "(technology company)". —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:51, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@BarrelProof have you found any that says (internet company)? Greatder (talk) 18:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Just one: Gazelle (Internet company). I suggest not considering that a good example to follow, since it hasn't gotten much attention and is tagged as having {{multiple issues}} (including COI editing, an advertisement tone, and excessive dependence on company-sourced information). Looking at the article, I fail to see what that company has to do with the Internet, and I just opened an RM to rename that article. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:32, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

• Support both Proton (technology company) and Proton (Internet company) and . Given the global reach and impact of Proton, anchoring the company's identity to its geographic location is reductive. ALso a broader term like "technology company" avoids being overly specific or quickly becoming outdated. --VertyBerty (talk) 12:56, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 17 May 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Proton (technology company) → Proton AG – Full company name. Simpler and more concise (WP:CONCISE). Allowed per WP:NCCORP. Strugglehouse (talk) 15:54, 17 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Toadette^Edit! 14:43, 25 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 00:01, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

• Rename There has been a lot of bickering over which disambiguator to use here in the past - this would nicely sidestep the problem. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:29, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Consensus was reached on a move from Proton AG only a year ago. While WP:NCCORP does allow for legal status suffix, it also allows for the existing parenthetical. To quote WP:CONCISE: "The goal of concision is to balance brevity with sufficient information to identify the topic to a person familiar with the general subject area" - I would argue that the AG legal status suffix is relatively unknown outside of Switzerland and is not know to most people familiar with Proton. Also, as pointed out in the previous requested move (dated 12 May 2023) discussion, Proton incorporates in many countries under different legal statuses. The parenthetical (technology company) is the clearer disambiguator, and moving to Proton AG strikes the wrong balance between brevity and sufficient information. If further brevity is sought, (tech company) offers greater balance. ConanTheCreator (talk) 11:05, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: This cannot be a soft move flooring the recent threads. Courtesy ping to User:BarrelProof, User:LamDoom, User:Necrothesp, User:Greatder, as they were active in the last discussion. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 00:01, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

• Support – Simple, WP:NATURAL, and resolves ambiguity with Proton Holdings (pointed out in comment by User:Necrothesp). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:16, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Comment Interesting idea. I would say support, unless people can bring atleast bring another singular company with the name Proton in any of it's part and has AG at the end. Greatder (talk) 07:16, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sources

This sentence: «Proton Mail maintains and owns its own server hardware and network in order to avoid utilizing a third party. It maintains two data centers, one in Lausanne and another in Attinghausen (in the former K7 military bunker under 1,000 meters (3,300 ft) of granite rock) as a backup.» has, apparently, relatively low quality sources. The first source is the company just saying that (conflict of interests), the second source is a news piece (most likely just citing the first source; and the link is not working at this moment, too), the third source apparently doesn't even mention Proton, or did I miss it in the video? Luckylemming (talk) 19:21, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Add A Fact: "Proton user data protected by Swiss laws"

I found a fact that might belong in this article. See the quote below

Proton is incorporated and headquartered in Switzerland. This means all user data is protected by strict Swiss privacy laws and Swiss neutrality.

The fact comes from the following source:

https://proton.me/calendar

Here is a wikitext snippet to use as a reference:

 {{Cite web |title=Organize your schedule privately with Proton Calendar |url=https://proton.me/calendar |website=Proton |access-date=2024-09-27 |language=en |quote=Proton is incorporated and headquartered in Switzerland. This means all user data is protected by strict Swiss privacy laws and Swiss neutrality.}} 

This post was generated using the Add A Fact browser extension.

Sawnp (talk) 15:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)