Talk:Raymond Pons, Count of Toulouse

Requested move 11 October 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 07:22, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

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• Raymond Pons, Count of Toulouse → Raymond Pons
• Raymond V, Count of Toulouse → Raymond V
• Raymond VI, Count of Toulouse → Raymond VI
• Raymond VII, Count of Toulouse → Raymond VII
• Fredelo, Count of Toulouse → Fredelo
• Beggo, Count of Toulouse → Beggo

– There is no one to disambiguate them from, so the lengthy disambiguation is not needed. Per our basic article title guideline, article titles should be precise and concise. Compare with such article titles as Basil II, Edward VII, Gustaf V, etc. Surtsicna (talk) 06:44, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

• Strong oppose. There are many Raymonds in European history. Not all have the same spelling (not standardized, spelling variants appear in texts, often in local languages - Raymond IV is Ramon IV or Raimundo IV? Fredelo is Frigidolo?). Domain adds clarity and recognizability. Essential also for disambiguates from other figures with same name even if slightly different spelling is used here on Wikipedia (e.g. Ramon Berenguer IV, Count of Barcelona, Ramon Berenguer IV, Count of Provence, etc. are also "Raymond IV" in many texts). These are not household names, and indication of their domain should be noted pretty much in the same format norm as other feudal counts, dukes and monarchs (as in WP:SOVEREIGN). These should not be shortened. They sound like movie series. It is a disservice to readers. Walrasiad (talk) 14:35, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose the Raymonds, support Fredelo and Beggo. I would support dropping , Count and just having the form Raymond VI of Toulouse for all the counts of Toulouse. There are, I suspect, rather few cases where one would want to link to Raymond VII over Raymond VII of Toulouse (or some other title with 'Toulouse' in it), so there is little to be gained from these moves. Srnec (talk) 17:46, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose as well, although I think every medieval ruler article should have a toponym or some kind of disambiguator regardless of what the guidelines say, so take that as you will Adam Bishop (talk) 18:14, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Far better known as Counts of Toulouse than by their names alone. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:28, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.