Talk:List of recipients of the Silver Buffalo Award

Laundry list

This is a list not an article, so I don't quite understand the application of {{cleanup-laundry}} here. According to the linked Wikipedia:WikiProject Laundromat, one of the goals is "To identify non-list articles that are overbalanced with laundry lists." --Gadget850 ( Ed) 01:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

which is a more appropriate tag for a list page where the list is overly-exhaustive. Should I just nom this for AfD due to the main page on this award already containing a list of notable recipients? - superβεεcat  01:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Go ahead. We can always copy the 200+ names into the main article later. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 01:32, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

hmmm. How about a RfC to determine whether this is notable? - superβεεcat  01:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Go ahead. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 01:41, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Request for comment: Notability of this list

This is a dispute as to whether an exhaustive list is necessary where the Silver Buffalo Award article already has a list of notable recipients. 01:45, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Comments

• Silver Buffalo Award currently has 34 bluelinks, this list has 192. The issue of what to do with redlinks is now opened to discussion, and was noted on Talk:Silver Buffalo Award before the list was moved to articlespace. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:17, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

• Also see: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 28#Category:Silver Buffalo awardees. The consensus there was to delete the category and replace it with an infobox in the article and a list of recipients. (Tempus fugit) --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

• Yesterday about this time: 192 bluelinks; today: 216; a 12% increase. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 23:18, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I very strongly support having this list. This gives a complete overview of the people who received this award, which is highly notable within the Scouting community. It is also complementary to the Silver Buffalo article, providing more information than what can be placed in the article on the award itself. By no means should it be deleted from Wikipedia. Dr. Submillimeter 13:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

My response to the RFC: As the list is already available from a properly cited and authoritative external link reference, there is no need for Wikipedia to duplicate that list per the "not a list" guideline. Wikipedia is an appropriate place to describe the notability of the award and refer to the list of recipients. I recommend creation of a category tag for Silver Buffalo recipients, to be appended to the footer of articles about recipients. That would be cleaner, easier to follow, and more maintainable than pasting the whole list into this article. VisitorTalk 09:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

What is the "not a list" guideline? As noted above, Category:Silver Buffalo awardees was deleted (without consensus). Since we created the list, a number of biographies have been created based on it. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:03, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

With so many redlinks, this article does WP Scouting a service by demonstrating that many of the most important leaders in scouting need WP pages, if only stubs. The Annual Report of the BSA used to be presented to the U.S. House Committee on Education by the Chief Scout of the BSA, and the annual House report was then incorporated into the US Congressional Serial Set, a public domain document. If nothing else we should be able to use the Silver Buffalo nomination report to Congress, itself incorported into the House Report, to begin these leadership stubs -- I'll look into this. Ctatkinson 17:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

References

I added the references column- other lists use this and it seems like a clean way to do this. As we found out with the DESA reference on the Eagle Scout list, you can't use a name reference more than 337 time before the Cite.PHP module pukes. I split the DESA refs into variant names, but that always seemed clunky. I used the "*" style reference here for the common SB ref. Is this a better solution?

Please add references that amplify the entry. For example, FDR's article has no mention of Scouting.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:23, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

THe ref I added to FDR does mention Scouting, but his article doesn't, so I'll add it to his article. He got the SBA before he became president too. I think the "*" solution is an excellent idea since it applies to everyone. I'd just leave the famous Eagles list the way it is.Rlevse 21:35, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I meant to mention- I'm using "later" to note notability that occurred after SB. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Unknown Scout

The link into the Boyce article is good for now, but I've been thinking we eventually need an actual article. There are conflicting stories behind the story- the Rowan bio of West says one thing and the Petterchak bio of Boyce sys another. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:51, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

List formatting

As can be seen, I and a few others have worked on this list a bit to get it into a startup. Now that it has been copied from my sandbox to articlespace, any interested editor can work it. Some questions that I would like consensus on: --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Table vs. bullet list

I did it as a table, but the consensus on List of Eagle Scouts (Boy Scouts of America) was to use bullets, as tables are harder for new editors.

{discuss)

Make it as close to Eagle list as possible, it is an FL after all. Unlink the red names and notate that they're there so that the list is complete, not just notable people.Rlevse 20:45, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Was that leave it as a table or convert to a list? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:20, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Convert to a list, formatted like the Eagle Scout FL.Rlevse 21:32, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Redlinks

Keep as redlinks; remove redlink entries altogether (making it a notable list only) or delink and bold

(discuss)

See above.Rlevse 20:46, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Definitely list all recipients. The complete list is an important reference and, as I've found many of the red links are notable, there's just no article yet. I'll continue trying to create as many stubs for notable folks on the list possible. --Jdurbach 12:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Order

By date presented, alpha like the Eagle list or by vocation like List of Dartmouth College alumni. Whichever order we choose, the table will be split and a TOC created.

(discuss)

BY date as is.Rlevse 20:45, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

By date. Maybe sub headings by decade? --Jdurbach 12:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

When done, I will build a custom TOC, similar to the Eagle Scout list; SBA was not awarded every year.

Notability

These cites need to be completely reworked. As I am working through the list, the cites that have not been changed are marked with a "/" - we need to decide how to work the old cites.

(discuss)

Don't follow what you mean.Rlevse 20:46, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

The unworked notability statements are copied directly from the BSA site, so we cannot leave those as is. I have marked the unworked ones up through 1938 with a slash. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:19, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Good to know. --Jdurbach 12:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

2009 Recipients

2009 Recipients are listed here:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Awards/SilverBuffalo.aspx