Talk:Rhine Valley

Dabconcept

Compare Alpine foothills. bd2412 T 04:30, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Agree with User:BD2412.

Suggest split along lines of this revision [1] which also may have some useful items to be restored:

1. Rhine Valley dabconcept with valley items (and use File:Rhein-Karte.png)
2. Rheintal (disambiguation) dab (possibly SIA - in which name could be "List of ...") with the remaining items (geopolitical areas). Ping User:Dbachmann User:ZH8000 . Widefox; talk 10:55, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

• I think that would be an excellent solution. bd2412 T 12:32, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

(With Rheintal -redirect-> Rhine Valley as a primary topic). Widefox; talk 12:47, 21 September 2016 (UTC) Ping further back User:Bermicourt User:Wbm1058 Widefox; talk 12:54, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

What is a Rhine Valley?

The recent adaptations I made some changes. Let me explain them:

• The Hochrhein (High Rhine) is not considered as a valley; the same way as Lake Constance is neither a valley.
• I propose to use the original language to link the not yet written articles; or at least, to use consistently the same langauage for everything; either all in English, or all in original languages
• Oberrheintal and Unterrheintal are both only political terms and hardly used form a topolocigal point of view.
• Further, the English translation of Oberrheintal would erroneously translate to the "Upper Rhine Valley", which is reserved for the part of the Oberrhein in Germany after Basel. Don't do/invent it!
• What's the purpose of Mosell Valley in the see lso paragraph??

-- ZH8000 (talk) 12:11, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your good faith edits. I have made a couple of further changes based on research of English names used at Google Books:

• Some sources do refer to the "High Rhine Valley" in English
• I have found the common names for the Chur and St. Gallen Rhine Valleys and inserted those.
• Your point about Oberrheintal and Unterrheintal is true from a purely Swiss perspective, but the sources and German Wikipedia show that the English terms "Upper Rhine Valley" and "Lower Rhine Valley" are widely used geographical terms.
• "See also" section. I've removed the rather random link to rift valley. Yes the Rhine is a rift valley, but that can be stated in the articles. Agree Moselle Valley shouldn't be there. But I've added the two Swiss districts as I think there is a linkage and it's helpful to include them.

HTH. Gruss. --Bermicourt (talk) 19:04, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Well, I have ome thoughts about these aspects:

• Some sources do refer to the "High Rhine Valley" in English – Sure they do, I do not doubt – unfortunately. My point is, even though every river has some sort of a valley in its widest sense, even in a such flat area as between between Lake Constance and Basel, it is – in a narrower sense – erroneous to apply it to that part, and it is not used that way in serious sources. And IMHO an encyclopedia should not support the reproduction of common errors. – Though I might be in contrdiction to some "WP ideas", here. Consider also that in German, and I supoose also in Dutch, the area of the Lower Rhine is never associated with a valley, in German it is called the Niederhein Bucht aka Lower Rhine Bay, but not Valley.
• Take care! The district Oberrheintal has absolutely nothing to do with Upper Rhine Valley, even though it is the literally correct translation. They are more than 150 km apart from each other! Upper Rhine (Valley) is eclusively applied to the part that starts in Basel and ends in Bingen, Germany, while the district is to be found even before the Lake of Constance on the border to Austria and Liechtenstein!! The same is true for the district Unterrheintal and the Lower Rhine Valley!!! That's what I tried to make clear in my first post! They are not related at all, and they shouldn't!
• And as long as there are no articles about the Chur Rhine Valley and the St. Gall Rhine Valley, I will add the original naming in German. Just for the sake of distinctiveness.

Thks. -- ZH8000 (talk) 20:11, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

That's a good idea - thank you. I love Switzerland and must explore those places some time. :) Bermicourt (talk) 20:40, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Grisons or Grisonian?

Hi ZH8000, Google Books gives 3 entries for "Grisons Rhine Valley" but none for "Grisonian Rhine Valley", which is why I changed it to the former. Do you have sources for the latter? Bermicourt (talk) 07:24, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

HI Bermicourt, Grisonian (adjective) is the correct translation of (Grau)Bündner xxx while refering to something from Graubünden. -- ZH8000 (talk) 12:47, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm sure it is and, as a translator I have sympathy with a more accurate rendering, but no English sources use it to describe this section of the Rhine valley. However, as Chur Rhine Valley is currently the (slightly) more common term, that would be a better article title and we'd have to reflect the real life situation in the lede somehow. --Bermicourt (talk) 19:47, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Well, at least you find Grisonian Rhine Valley by google quite a few times, also on serious sites. Further, Churer Rheintal is anyhow the more accurate term, since the term refers to only a part of the Rhine in the Grisons (between Reichenau and Sargans), not the whole Grisonian Rhine. -- ZH8000 (talk) 10:42, 24 September 2016 (UTC)