Talk:Robert Burgess (rugby union)

Requested move 1 November 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. The consensus is that the subject's middle name is not commonly enough used to serve as disambiguation. Cúchullain ^t/c 15:25, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

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Robert Burgess (rugby) → Robert Balderston Burgess – Not well-known rugby player, but he's still notable. I found sources but not enough. Per WP:NATURAL, obscure name shall not be used. The proposed name is not obscure when you analyze the sources provided in the discussion. George Ho (talk) 08:15, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

20th century:[1][2][3]
Year 2000
21st century: [4][5]
Uncertain
Here are above sources. George Ho (talk) 08:15, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

• Support. FunkyCanute (talk) 22:56, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:MIDDLES: use of middle names for disambiguation is not advised where they are not commonly used. FunkyCanute (talk) 09:36, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:NCDAB. Only use middle names for disambiguation when they are very commonly used. That is not the case here, where you get 909 gbooks results for "Robert Burgess" rugby compared to only 7 for the proposed title. Jenks24 (talk) 08:15, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Take out "Wikipedia" from results, Jenks and Funky Canute, so you get 200+ results. Also, the results include some bank manager and someone else who attended the University of Virginia in 1931 (more than fifteen years after this rugby guy died). You haven't thoroughly search this person yet. George Ho (talk) 19:05, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Actually, yes I have, thanks. He's mentioned in a few books but he hasn't been written about thoroughly because he wasn't one of the leading players of the time. To find out more about him, you have to trawl the newspaper archives and other harder to research sources. I'm conducting a substantial project about international rugby players killed in WWI and I have a pretty good understanding of this whole area. FunkyCanute (talk) 20:23, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

George, even with weeding out other results, surely you would have to agree the current format gets a lot more hits than the 7 your proposed title gets? Jenks24 (talk) 02:25, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

No, Jenks; there is a doctor named Robert Burgess, and I already added "Uncertain" source. There could be another rugby player of the same name. George Ho (talk) 07:51, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Right now, I can't get past the fourth page of results. Google must have skimmed down results that would not be helpful. Also, most of hits do not mention rugby player, reducing to ten or less(?) sources. George Ho (talk) 07:53, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Still sounds to me like there are more sources that don't use his middle name. Noting also that ESPNscrum, which I assume is a reliable source because ESPNcricinfo is very good, uses Robert Burgess as its title and then gives his full name as detail along dob, etc, which seems a good guidance for how we should handle it. Perhaps FunkyCanute could tell us how Burgess is referred to in Into Touch: Rugby Internationals Killed in the Great War, which sourced most of the article? Jenks24 (talk) 00:15, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

ESPNScrum is an excellent source. Having done some work with the England 2015 marketing team, I can confirm that it used it for quick access to data about players and teams. McCrery, Into Touch, lists all the players by their full names, including middle names, which is not particularly helpful. ESPN is much better. Take, for instance Jack Verge and see Jack Verge at ESPNscrum By all means, create Robert Balderston Burgess and point it to this article. FunkyCanute (talk) 14:47, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

I could not find this Robert Burgess in all results. There is another rugby player named "Robert Burgess". George Ho (talk) 00:38, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Try searching here: ESPNScrum Players and Officials and you'll find just one international rugby player listed as Robert Burgess: Robert Burgess at ESPNscrum. FunkyCanute (talk) 09:24, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

...If another rugby article about the other "Robert Burgess" is created, perhaps revisit if this proposal fails? George Ho (talk) 02:27, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.