Talk:History of Russian military ranks

Vandalism

the user JMRAMOS0109 distorts the names of military ranks. For example, He change names of Russian ranks of German origin to English.--UeArtemis (talk) 04:23, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup needed

Why is senior sergeant redirected to this page? --- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.173.17.153 (talk) 08:30, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Where is the Senior/Chief Marshal rank? --- The page needs some thinking through (I appreciate it is temporary) The system of Ranks in modern Russia should be used. If one is referring to the Soviet Union then the ranks may depend on what time period is being referred to; hence pages like: Comparative military ranks of World War II Ranks of the Soviet Union would be entered as historical ranks and suitable notes made as to the period of use. Dainamo 19:40, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hello! I have updated the page to the modern russian ranks according to the official site of Russian ministry of defense. DimaY2K

The page still needs cleanup to reference Imperial Russia ranks as instated by Table of Ranks, incorporate Soviet military ranks including with all the bizarre post-revolutionary position-ranks and give some insight on restoring personal and finally General ranks right before the World War II. The insignia should also be provided.

I will start a rewrite soon, based on the data published at http://armor.kiev.ua and similar sites. DmitryKo 14:16, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Rewrite

• I've started a rewrite. Any thoughts on organizing the ranks in the best possible way are welcome. DmitryKo 08:11, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

What are Space Troops?

I didn't even know that such a formation exists. I'd like to hear anything about this. --212.45.8.211 22:06, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Space Troop is an indepedent core of Russian armed forces whose main duty is security of Russia in space. Which incudes informing the military and goverment of a missile attack, missile difense of Moscow, deployment and control of military satelites. --DimaY2K 10:09, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Military Space Forces (Space Troops) is a combination of National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, National Reconnaissance Office and NASA. I personally find it weird that Rosaviakosmos was recently subordinated to the military. DmitryKo 14:16, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Clarification?

The article says

"[with the 1917 revolution] The Table of Ranks was abolished and so were the personal military ranks. The army and the navy has returned to a system of positional ranks that were acronyms of the full position names."

Does this mean that the acronyms were used immediately after the revolution in place of personal military ranks, or that the Army and Navy have returned to the acronyms in the present day? The following paragraph says that

"The personal ranks were not reintroduced until 1935"

so I am rather confused. Molinari 19:56, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The positional acronyms were used unofficially from 1918 till 1935 and from 1940 till the present day. There were no personal ranks from 1918 until 1935, period. Three of these acronyms (Combat, Comdiv and, to less extent, Commandarm) are still in use as informal position names.

Please note that it's only the initial phase of the rewrite, so the Soviet Union section is going to be heavily expanded with tons of similar information.

A small historical review. The Bolsheviks effectively disbanded the Army by time of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, so they had to recreate it right from the scratch, which they did. The only 'rank' in the RKKA (Workers' and Peasants' Red Army), as of 1920 Statute, was Red Armee (красноармеец, soldier), and a particular 'soldier' could hold a commanding position of Commander [of the] Batallion (Com.Bat., Combat), Commander [of the] Division (Com.Div., Comdiv), Commander [of the] Army [as unit] (Comand.Arm., Commandarm) etc. Thus, the sleeve insignia reflected the position of a commanding officer, not his personal rank. This system was resembling the ancient conventions of Strelets Troops (hence the has returned to reference). The officers of Imperial General Staff holding Colonel and General ranks and serving in high commanding positions of the Red Army ought to find it ironic that they were technically privates.

The 'rank-less' concept was largely compromised in 1924 when permanent categories (K1 to K14) were introduced, which were very akin to personal ranks. But the true ranks were officially reestablished only in 1935 with the return of Lieutenant (of 3 grades), Captain, Major and Polkonvik (later augmented with Podpolkovnik), although supreme officers were given their pre-existing informal positional ranks of Combrig (Brigade), Comdiv, Comcor (Corps) and Commandarm (of 2 grades). These confusing supreme ranks were reportedly backed by the high commanders of the Red Army who were reluctant to hold a 'tsarist' rank of 'General'; nevertheless, the top Army rank was very Imperial-sounding Marshal.

The 'acronymised' ranks were finally replaced with revised General and enlisted ranks in 1940 and by 1943, the Empire-based insignia was established for both enlisted and comsissioned staff. As the Combrig rank was abolished in the process, many Brigades and even Divisions were actually commanded by Colonels rather than Generals (temporary ranks were never used in the Russian Army and Red/Soviet Army)

Hope this clears the matter. DmitryKo 22:09, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Translation: Polkonvik

Lieutenant, Capitan, Major and... Polkovnik? Why not Colonel? --GS 17:12, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Russian equivalents for the ranks above are adopted (russified) Western words. Polkovnik is an original Russian rank that is a direct equivalent to Colonel, as stated in the Strelets Troos section. See Oberst. DmitryKo 18:37, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Original Russian rank or original Russian name for the rank of Colonel? --GS 00:33, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it matters. Is Lieutenant Commander an original English name for the rank of Captain, 3rd rank? DmitryKo 06:07, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Take the point, but it seems to be the original Russian rank, rather than someone deciding "let's have colonels with a different name'. The Land 13:19, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Russian Five Star Ranks

Info I've seen has that Russia maintains two five star ranks reserved for time of war or national emergency, those being Marshal of the Russian Federation (held by one person so far) and Fleet Admiral of the Russian Federation (on paper but never held). Ive added them to the article as such. Source is U.S. Army comparative ranks study published through Institute of Heraldry. Any objections to keeping them here? -Husnock 16:18, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

I added a scan of the PDF page on Talk:Fleet Admiral (Russia). -Husnock 16:36, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

They are, simply, plain wrong. There was no rank of the Admiral of the Russian Federation, ever, on any paper except the one published by the Institute. If they cared to actually look at the legislation, they wouldn't have to invent unexisting ranks by extending Soviet rank structure on the current Russian system.

There's one supreme rank defined by law and it's the one of Marshal of the Russian Federation. So, in theory, a Fleet Admiral could be promoted to Marshal! It's not the only funny thing about Russian ranks - the highest ranks in the branches such as Air Force, the Armoured troops, the Marines and the Airborne troops are all titled General of the Army, as opposed to the Soviet system of Marshals and Chief Marshals of a branch.

BTW, Admiral of the Fleet and Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union were purely honorable ranks. No, they were not reserved for wartime because there was no such practice in the Soviet military, but there were really very few people who actually held them (mostly "high court" admirals) and these ranks didn't even exist at the time of WWII. --DmitryKo 22:08, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Thats all fine. You're winning me over. BUT if Russia became involoved in a major war would they not have a 5 star naval rank? I dont know that much about this topic to defend against your sources, but then on the other hand why would the Army make this up and put it in a publication? Of course, i will be the first to admit sources from Russia should outweigh sources from the U.S. -Husnock 23:40, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

You have to ask the Army... I believe they just didn't double check the sources. As for a loss of distinction between naval and army ranks, yes I do find it funny but OTOH I don't think it matters much. They would be purely honorific as the President is the one and only Supreme Commander. --DmitryKo 11:26, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

---

Not to rehash the above unpleasant subject, but as the VFD failed on Fleet Admiral of the Russian Federation, and U.S. sources have been provided, I added in a line that such a rank is conjectured to exist (but did not put it into the rank tables). Hope that doesn't cause a problem.

Tables and pictures

This is a great article but I find it somewhat bulky and confusing. I think the tables need to be broken up into separate article for the ranks of the Russian Empire, Soviet Union, and Russian Federation. Also, pictures are badly needed! That should not be too hard, as I have a Defense Department JPG CD which ahs pics of Russian ranks.

I propose to split the article up and add pictures. Thats obviously a major undertaking and will not be attempted without some agreement. -Husnock 21:29, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

You have an agreement from me. --DimaY2K 12:06, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Would it bee too much to ask that someone who is able please provide a Roman transliteration of the Cyrillic in the tables?Pgranzeau 17:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Podpraporshchik/Bootsman

Someone added ranks of podpraporshchik and bootsman to modern military ranks table. Those ranks do not exist in modern russian military neither did they exist in soviet military. It can be seen clearly here (a page from russian military of deffense site). As such I am removing them from this page and others related. --DimaY2K 13:18, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Roitr why do you keep adding this ranks to the table. They don't exist. Same thing about Admiral of the fleet of the Russian Federation, it is not an inactive rank it does not exist. --DimaY2K 17:00, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Roitr, please stop adding fictional and historical ranks, or I'll make sure you are banned. Thanks. -DmitryKo 15:22, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Russian military ranks

• Please stop adding fictional and historical ranks... Thanks. -DmitryKo 15:22, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

It not historical, but in the present time is not an active and a theoretical ranks and them it is necessary to write them in this clause, though with the marks (look notes in a bottom of the table), that I and I do. In the USA now too still not appointed ranks General of the Air Force, General of the Army (USA) and Fleet Admiral and in the U.K and other countries Field Marshal and the General-Admiral, but everywhere in all tables of ranks they are written as existing, but now not active. And " the Marshal of the Russian Federation " to whom not was appointed since November 1996 (nine years) - after Igor Sergeev, and can then also it to remove off the list?.About ranks in aircraft that in the majority they such as well as in a ground forces, but under the charter to them is necessarily added a prefix of "aircraft" - on an example the general of aircraft, the colonel general of aircraft. Therefore my table is more exact as considers all aspects and I consider and I ask that this page should be kept. Thanks for understanding. Roitr 10:57, 8 November

First of all Russian Air Force has no it's own system of ranks it uses All-forces ranks, so do Space Troops and Airborn Assault Troops. And words "of aviation" are not added to this ranks.

Second, what are shore of the air force? That is probably a mistype.

Third, Naval Infantry (Marine Corps) uses All-forcess ranks.

Fourth, deck ranks used by deck personal of Navy and Boarder Guard troops do not have rank which is equevalent to Marshal of the Russian Federation. Same way as french navy has no equivalent rank for rank (or title) of Marshal of France. --DimaY2K 12:45, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Continuing the discussion from User_talk:Roitr#Russian_military_ranks.

• 1 Roitr said: "Here http://www.mil.ru/articles/article3665.shtml the rank of Marshal of the Russian Federation is placed in the ground forces column"

My response: again, look at the following link [1] which I provided on the Talk:Fleet Admiral of the Russian Federation. The table in Article 46 clearly has Marshal of the Russian Federation placed as an all-forces rank.

• 2a "the Admiral of the Fleet of the Russian Federation and the Chief Marshal of Aviation are considered inactive war-time only ranks by Russian Military doctrine"

Well, the last time I checked the current doctrine, http://www.mil.ru/articles/article3923.shtml, it tells nothing about these ranks (any ranks for that matter).

Anyway, feel free to add them to Theoretical Military ranks of the Russian Federation, if you feel so obliged... don't forget to include Fleet_Admiral_of_the_Russian_Federation right in the beginning, you'll make User:Husnock happy :p.

• 2b "the comparative table of UN Security Council lists UK Field Marshal as an equivalent to US General of the Army and Marshal of the Soviet Union"

So does Wikipedia's own Comparative_military_ranks_of_World_War_II. Yet, a different article, Army_officer_ranks, states (correctly) that with the absense of Brigadier-grade ranks in the Third Reich and the Soviet Union/Russia, any comparison for General/Admiral ranks can not be considered exact.

• 3a "I've heard "polkovnik of aviation" in the media"

Huh... what kind of an argument is that? Anyway, its not a part of the rank, it's just a construct used (rahter incorrectly) to differentiate aviators from army officers.

• 3b "the Rules of Internal Service are inconsistent with the Law on Military Duty and Military Service" (minor cases provided)"

There's no need to redefine something that's already defined by a law of a higher precedence, and Federal Laws take precedenсe over other Laws, Presidential Decrees (which instated the above-mentioned Rules) and Governmental Decisions. So if the latter contain parts that contradict the Federal Law or the Constitution, these parts are automatically considered invalid (and may be subsequentially removed from legislation by a Decree of the Assembly of the High Court of a Decision of Constitution Court thereafter), but that does not prevent those Laws, Decrees and Orders from extending higher-precedence laws in such areas where they don't contradict anything defined therein.

• 4 "if the holders of respective [Soviet] ranks still serve in the Ministry of Defense, their ranks are part of the current system"

So, in theory, if an Israeli officer who has Russian citizenship (as allowed by Russian-Israeli international agreements) joins the Russian Ministry of Defense, his rank becomes part of Russian system as well? Are you preparing to expand the table with Israeli ranks here, as per your "theoretical ranks" doctrine? LOL

• 5 Junior Praprorshchik and Bootsmann ranks were enacted in 1982 but they were shortly dismissed thereafter".

With all due respect, there were no such ranks in the late Soviet Armed Forces. The last change to the rank system was the introduction of Senior Praporshchik and Senior Midshipman in 1980, and that's all.

A two-star Praporshchik rank doesn't necesarily mean there were one-star rank. In fact, it would be too easy to confuse one-star Praporshschik with a Junior Lieutenant, because the size and the placement of their penthagram stars would be exaclty the same, even though there's additional axial stripe on a shoulder board of a Lieutenant. And Tropical Uniform of the Middle-Asian Military District din't even featured standard striped shoulder boards as such, so the two ranks would be completely undistinguishable. I think this is one single reason why one-star Praporshchik never existed.

Anyway, I can imagine how some peasant, never-went-to-school type Uzbek soldiers would initially be tricked into treating Junior Lieutenants as Junior Praporshchiks... LOL [2]

BTW, Under-Liuetenant and Lieutenant NEVER were army or naval infantry ranks in the Russian Empire, they were strictly Deck ranks.

• 6 There was a Bootsmann "positional rank" in late 1930s

It begs to be added to the appropriate section then. In all fairness, is not does not belong to the section on Russian Federation ranks.

• Final words. I'm starting the section on the ranks of the Soviet Union, at last. I suggest that the current Russian insignia should be merged here from the corresponding Army/Air Force and Navy articles, and sections on the insignia of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union should be added as well, so it will be easier for readers to maintain historical retrospective.

Peace, --DmitryKo 21:50, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

• Answer:
• 2b) "the comparative table of UN Security Council lists UK Field Marshal as an equivalent to US General of the Army and Marshal of the Soviet Union",not as an equivalent to Russian/Soviet General of the Army.
• 3a) For that that to differentiate aviators from army officers I would consider for clearness, about whom there is a speech, let will be a part " of aviation ".
• 3b) About contradictions and inconsistents the charter of Internal Service of armed forces of Russia signed by president with the Federal Law on Military Duty and Military Service, as I wrote lacks and contradictions are in the same law, as I wrote about contradictions between them. You forgive me, but while these mistakes by whom are not corrected and ranks will be ordered (by the High Court, by the Constitution Court), I cannot consider system of military ranks of Russia 100% true.

To your data: 1) The decision and laws accepted by the Russian parliament signed by president and then there is a decree, rather the reverse signs as you write. Presidential Decrees and Orders - they have more higher value. 2) The system of ranks of Russia developed and varied at all times and till now continues to develop and it is not completely final.

• 4) It is not necessary to deform that that I have written. The Israeli officer who has Russian citizenship-it one, and the Soviet officer - absolutely another. The Russian army officially is considered the heir-at-law the Soviet army,- not Israeli and it in the majority has inherited military ranks from the Soviet army, not from Israeli or Uzbek. LOL
• 5)

a) The two ranks would be completely undistinguishable-it is nonsense. Then undistinguishable would be and Senior Lieutenant and Polkovnik,even though there are additional axial strips on a shoulder board of a Polkovnik. In the Middle-Asian floor the size of a star is not always visible. It concerns for Lieutenant and Podpolkovnik. LOL b) I did not write Under-Liuetenant and Lieutenant in the table-ranks of navy infantry, and wrote in the table-Ranks of the Naval Forces in which they were according to the table of military ranks of Russian Fleet-grades of Russian Military Fleet under the sea charter of 1720 http://armor.kiev.ua/army/titul/rusflot-1720.shtml . Do not take offence, but I trust Yeremeyev more. Yours faithfully --Roitr 03:20, 12 November 2005

2b. Are you even trying to understand what I'm saying? There's no Brigadier-grade rank and such positions are by convention occupied by Colonels, NOT Major Generals whci are Division-grade officers. So Western Brigadier General is NOT an equivalent to Russian Major General, whatever various tables say.

3b. No, Presidential Decrees do not take precedence over Laws, it's just that the President can try to veto a Law that's passed by the Parliament, but the State Duma has a means to overcome the veto by a "constitutional majority vote" (2/3 of the members). No, the system is not "complete", but so is every system out there, isn't it? It doesn't grant you rights to include various provisional ranks that have never even been held by anyone, unlike for example General of the Armies and Admiral of the Navy.

4. I'm not "deforming" anything, unlike you. Marshal of the Soviet Union is not a rank in the current system, no matter the historical roots, and so are the other ranks that are not listed in the legislation.

5a. Again, did you understand what I said? The insignia would be THE SAME - the same size, the same placement, the same generic strip-less shoulder board. On the contrary, Lieutenant and Lieutenant Colonel wear the stars of different sizes, so it's DIFFERENT insignia.

5b. Ah, now I see. You're placing Under-Lieutenant in the Xth class, where it never was by the Table of Ranks, which BTW was enacted no earlier than 1722, and don't give any time frame. So check your facts first.

Sorry, but your English is bad, you have to provide Russian translation in order for me to understand what you're trying to say in detail... even though I'd suppose it is the same kind of nonsense, again :(. --DmitryKo 19:03, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

So, you chose to close the discussion and move on ingoring the facts once again. OK. First, there is separate article for the Leib Guard and it featires a table of Guard-specific ranks. Anyway these were never considered Army ranks, so at least a different column should be used if you feel the need to move it here. And don't forget that Guard ranks can be up to two grades higher than similar Army ranks, and that custom was changed several times. Second, are you going to include hundreds of historical speciality ranks defined by the Table?!! Where did you find Russian translitarations of "lancer", and why are you adding "handlager" and, in all the world, "yeomen"?!! Third, you don't need to accent-mark "yo" (both ё and йо) because it's always accented by Russian grammar rules. I'm really beginning to doubt you studied in a Russian school... Forth, Under-Lieutenant never belonged to the 10th grade. Reverted once again. --DmitryKo 17:40, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Comment on work done

Nice page. NPOV and clear, concise information. David.

Lyotchik

Who added Lyotchik as a rank?! Word lyotchik means pilot in russian and never was a rank in russian military. Russian air force has exectly the same ranks as russian ground forces. Could someone stop this madness! --DimaY2K 14:21, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I give up. Roitr, you may trash this page as you like. Best regards. --DmitryKo 14:51, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

So, now he's banned but has created numerous bots... why does he have to spend his time writing nonsense and trashing English Wikipedia when he's apparently Russian is just beyond me. --DmitryKo 22:14, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Transliteration Errors?

The following do not match the pronunciations I've heard nor the cyrillic presented: 1731-1798

Rittmeister (ро́тмистр)

Portupey Praporshchik (пра́порщик)) (1798-1826); Feldwebel (фельдфе́бель)

Rottmeister? Portupey is not indicated in the Cyrillic; Feldwebel does not match the Cyrillic.

Some of the entries in the table are translated into english; others are transliterated, and several are equivalent German ranks... which are clearly sources of the borrowed rank titles, but do not provide useful assistance to understanding.

Russian Federation

Gefreiter (ефре́йтор)

The G at the front is not how I've heard it pronounced, and is not in the cyrillic (which matches the kremlin.ru archived prikaz on ranks). Wfh 05:39, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Admiral, General, Rittmeister, Junker, Bootsmann, Midshipman, Feldwebel, Wachtmeister, Gefreiter, etc. are German, Dutch, English etc. loanwords which were never transliterated per se, they were rather adopted into Russian usage and their spelling might not stay true to the original. I chose not to provide exact romanizations/transliterations of Russian words in the tables, except for the historical part and some true Slavic terms like polkovnik and golova, for the single reason that it would only create unnecessary clutter and conceal their true origin. If I were to provide exact transliterations of Ефрейтор and Фельдфебель etc, I would also end up with weird terms like Mayor, Kapitan and Michman which help no one, not to mention that I'd be unable to explain how would one spell General without providing IPA transcription (not the English word, but transliteration of Russian Генерал)...

I admit the article needs cleanup as it was heavily vandalized by the many sockpuppets of User:Roitr, so there is probably some nonsense still left - in particular, Portupey Praporshchik was exclusively a Leib Guard rank and it has never been a Cavalry rank (although Portupey Junker was). I'll look into the matter when I have more free time. --Dmitry 18:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Stabbs-captain vs. stabs-captain. The article uses both. The latter is transcribed from the Russian; does stabbs-captain have any support? (My guess is that stabs-captain is borrowed from the German, and can be rendered in English as staff captain.) PKKloeppel (talk) 13:17, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I propose to use the word "Efreitor"! We do not use the word "Hauptmann" when talk about "Hetman". Such words can be adopted into English usage. 95.69.152.59 (talk) 16:25, 29 September 2009 (UTC) UeArtemis

Why is "Front Commander" (Фронтовой командир) and not "Commander of the Front" (Командир фронта) and etc. if Comandarm is "Commander of the Army" and General of the Army (Генерал армии) isn't Army General (Армейский генерал)???UeArtemis (talk) 12:24, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Why did you change Flagman to Flag officer??? What is a corporal in the Red Army? I ask to do not replace names of ranks by western counterparts!UeArtemis (talk) 17:38, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Флагман (Flagman) is from Dutch: Vlagman!!! I must be kept as Flagman or Vlagman, not abstract "Flag officer"!--UeArtemis (talk) 17:52, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Linking of Cornet

The Cornet link, links to the actual instrument rather than the page on the military rank, I made it link to the actual rankCarillonatreides 17:28, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

images needed

this article extremly needs images to show the military ranks Ammar (^Talk - ^{Don't Talk}) 21:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Admiral of the Fleet of the Russian Federation

Admiral of the Fleet of the Russian Federation is fictional rank; no such rank in Russian fleet now. I delete all about this from the article, please don't add wrong information. (sorry for poor english) Ingwar JR 08:25, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Marshal of the Russian Federation Igor Sergeyev

The only officer who presently holds the rank is the former Minister of Defense Igor Sergeyev. Sergeyev died last year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.57.51.71 (talk) 21:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

If it's still auithoried by regulation and/or law, it should be listed, evebn if unfilled... jst like US 5-star/6-star flag & general grades. justnoted s unfilled. Wfh (talk) 16:10, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Ranks for late-30s and WW2

Hi people. I'm going to need these ranks for another project, so if no-one minds I'm going to add a basic content for now that can be expanded later. Ok?--Mrg3105 (talk) 11:29, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Chief of Navy of the Republic is K-13 or K-14 rank level? Someone moved this rank from the category 13 into 14. The sources pointed out that it is К-13. UeArtemis (talk) 12:13, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Admiral of the Fleet of the Russian Federation

Why does this non-existent rank keep appearing in this article, albeit with caveats about being hypothetical and possible in the event of war? Firstly, necessity for more ranks is based on for size and organisational structure, so a big peacetime build-up would be just as much of an impetus for creating this rank. Secondly, a naval officer could be promoted to Marshal of the Russian Federation. Finally, and most importantly, IT DOESN'T EXIST. Pointing out that it's hypothetical is accurate but its inclusion in the chart is not appropriate, as that clause can be used as a justification for including any number of non-existent ranks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.101.217.37 (talk) 16:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

And why do people keep undoing revisions to that effect, even when the non-existence of the rank is explained in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.101.174.59 (talk) 19:44, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Unused but authorized ranks (which, last I checked at Kremlin.ru, Admiral of the Fleet was, but that was several years ago) should be listed. The rank system includes them, even if they are unused. There are a bunch of unused US ranks, for example... WO1 in the US Navy, USCG, USMC; all WO and CWO grades in the USAF, 5 and 6 star US Generals and Admirals... all authorized by law and assigned insignias by regulation, but unused. Just because it isn't in use doesn't mean the rank does not exist; just that it isn't used. Wfh (talk) 16:15, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

• BTW, at http://rusnavy.com/history/interesting/admiral.htm, it still seems to be authorized, even if unused. But I can't find the uniform regs on kremlin.ru at the moment; my rusian's too out of practice.Wfh (talk) 16:45, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Überofficers?!

Gentlemen, why does it say überofficers in the Russian Empire section, it's seems to me as blatant vandalism. It has stuck there for the past months.

Gsmgm (talk) 20:30, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Add a table

I added the table of Ranks of 1917-1925.--UeArtemis (talk) 20:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Historical influences

of the Imperial Russian ranks: what other countries did Russia look to when evolving these ranks (I am not talking about the "native" Russian ranks)? The German influence is obvious, but the actual insignia are very Austria-Hungary like. 118.90.103.184 (talk) 11:51, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

All-forcess Ranks vs. Troop Ranks

I think that term "All-forcess Ranks" sould be changed to "Troop Ranks" since "troop", is closest translation of russian "войско". I'm waiting for responces before making the change (don't want to start another edit war on this article). DimaY2K (talk) 04:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Invented English terms and general clarity

Gentlemen, it's good to see that this article has been cleaned of nonsense by User:Roitr and has recently undergone much needed expansion in regard to Soviet ranks, however the rank tables have become way too detailed compared to initial versions and just impossible to perceive by anyone.

I suggest you don't invent new English terms such as "Efreitor" or "Staff Captain", which have either never seen any substantial English use [3], or are not used in the sense implied in this article [4]. Please avoid too much transliteration and Russification. Just try to follow the wikilinks to find out that they don't even mention any Russian use such as General of the Infantry, and there are many orphaned articles like Stabskapitän which should be linked from this and other articles.

Please clean-up this article and simplify the rank tables which are largely unreadable by now because there are too many details that are primarily of interest to historians only and should be left to detailed monographs, not an encyclopaedia entry. This is why it is currently listed in a "B" category; something needs to be done about it,

What about a break-up to smaller articles, with short summaries in place of long detailed tables in the main article? The detailed sections could be linked from Military ranks of the Soviet Union, and this article would become a descriptive text with a historical overview of the rank system, instead of normative list of every possible rank in each and every historical period. --Dmitry _{(talk •contibs )} 17:50, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Separated Commander

is this a real translation (i.e. generally adopted in published works) or is it someone's invention (which apparently has been copied to some other similar articles on other websites)?

ru:Отделение means loosely something like squad or section, and in fact that rank should be an equivalent of "squad/section leader". A squad (or section) could be a tank (thus becoming a tank commander), but in infantry they would be leading a smallest tactical unit (until today) that is distinguished in the Russian Army. "Separated commander" sounds like typical engrish (in this case runglish) fail to me. Egh0st (talk) 20:08, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Border Guards

Although it is FSB and not the military per say, should it be noted that the Border Guard often has rank insignia on the lowere part of sleeves? 71.58.198.190 (talk) 23:21, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Soviet Ranks

Why does this article include ranks from the Soviet Union when a seperate article exists for them? Russia does not equal the Soviet Union.86.141.3.84 (talk) 17:55, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Equivalent Western rank

what is "Equivalent Western rank", is there a rank system that is uniform and the same for all states to the west of Russia?

Cossacks ranks for the period 1722-1917 are missing

As I am aware Cossacks' ranking system was quite different from the general military one. Moreover they were a semi regular detachments and as such were not completely integrated into the military structure (e.g. they had their own artillery up until ww1). I am not really an expert in this subject so anyone interested in welcomed to do their own research, but the details that I gave above are 100% correct. So I guess some further work is needed on "1722-1917" section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.195.68.111 (talk) 03:57, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

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