Talk:Ségou

Link to Spanish version

There is an article about Ségou on Spanish Wikipedia but it doesn't appear on the left hand column with the links to the article in other languages. I don't know how to fix that. Could someone do it who knows how? The Spanish article is called "Segú (ciudad)". Ganacka (talk) 17:59, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Got it. Thanks!Khazar (talk) 19:05, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Requested move 28 January 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 57 10:39, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

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Ségou → ? – The name should be either "Segou" or "Segu", per the description below. A12n (talk) 20:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC) The name should be either "Segu" or "Segou", since "Ségou" (with the accent aigu) is the French spelling, and an accented character is not necessary in English.--A12n (talk) 15:18, 22 January 2015 (UTC) (updated 20:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC) )

• Support - Segu - This usage apparently goes back to Mungo Park if not earlier and also harmonizes with the name as written in Bambara orthography.--A12n (talk) 15:18, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

(User A12n, I have removed the blank you left for supports of Segou with no accent, we do not pre-format RMs in this way In ictu oculi (talk) 01:15, 29 January 2015 (UTC))

• Strong Oppose per WP:UE. The official spelling is Ségou. The town is not well known outside Mali and English reliable sources use the official spelling. (Note this is in contrast to Timbuktu where the English spelling is generally used). Aa77zz (talk) 12:37, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Was not able to get Google advanced search to give raw counts of one spelling vs another in English (which is a debatable metric, though relied on in Wikipedia), but in my experience, "Segou" is more common than either "Ségou" or, depending on use, also "Segu." Older sources in English used "Segu" and current sources often use that spelling when referring to the city and its kingdom/empire in the pre-colonial period (seems to make no sense to use different spellings for the historic and current location). It is also this spelling that is used in Bambara, although that is not official. A good case therefore could be made for use of "Segu" IMO. "Ségou" is of course official in French, the official language of Mali, but the city was known in English language sources before French colonization and standardization of the French spelling, and following that standard its name has been re-adapted to English with the "ou" but with "e" instead of "é." Wrt "reliable" sources, my subjective impression from reading scholarly and development lit over the years is that "Segou" in English is more common than "Ségou" (may have been due to to keyboard issues). A quick search of .edu sites showed 1620 hits for "Ségou" not "Segou" (but a number of these were actually in French), 2660 hits for "Segou" not "Ségou," and 2640 hits for "Segu" not "Ségou" or "Segou" (with added term "Mali" on the latter to correct for hits on unrelated uses of "Segu"). Again via Google, USAID used "Ségou" not "Segou" 273 times (most or all in French documents), and "Segou" not "Ségou" 1340 times. The NY Times seems to use Ségou more than Segou, but Washington Post the reverse (not many hits in either case); no discernible trend as far as I see in the press on the alternatives. In general I don't see a preponderance of usage of "Ségou" in English, but also note that some number of hits with this are actually mirroring Wikipedia's current usage (Wikipedia tries not to be prescriptive, but still ends up influencing usage). So still suggesting move to "Segu" or "Segou."--A12n (talk) 15:38, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

• Strong oppose, again as per WP:UE above, the name is given French accent, as per WP:FRMOS which applies where francophone African geo names are so represented in English books. As this is. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:15, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Just did a quick search of English language books on Google books: Although it did not give counts, it returned many hits with "Segou" not "Ségou." It also had many hits for "Ségou" not "Segou," but some of these were actually in French or citing a title in French (such as Maryse Condé's 2 volume work, which originally came out in French ... the English translation of which used "Segu" in the title). There were also many hits for "Segu" and "Mali," including many on history. So how can one say that use of one form in books in English is rationale for choosing that form as title of this article? Moreover, there does not seem to be a compelling reason to use the accented version for this role (certainly not pronunciation), given the frequent (possibly more frequent, which is my experience) use of one or both the non-accented forms in English. My reading of WP:FRMOS is that it focuses mainly on France. In the case of multilingual Africa, the interface with geonames is arguably more complex, certainly for an important city like Seg(o)u that has been described in Anglophone literature without the Francophone spelling. This is a different case than something like the much smaller Togolese town of Amlamé, for instance, which is known in English more recently and primarily if not exclusively in the French spelling.--A12n (talk) 05:20, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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