Talk:Saxaul sparrow/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Ucucha 12:13, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

• Lead: it it it it—you need a bit more variation in sentence structure

Changed a bit, though maybe not enough. —innotata 19:30, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

• Measurements for tail and bill length are the same. Is this not an error?

Errors caused by copying and pasting to alter a very badly written section fixed

• What is a supercilium?

linked to supercilium. Describing it would interrupt the text.

• I think you should mention that saxaul is a plant.

Done.

• What are the characters separating korejewi from other nominate ammodendri?

Added. —innotata 19:30, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

You now have the characters for timidus in "Taxonomy" and those for korejewi under "Description". Ucucha 20:02, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Changed.

• It's a bit odd that you are describing the distribution in most detail under "Taxonomy", but I can't think of an improved arrangement.
• "0.75 × 0.57 inches"—need metric conversion

I'll do that.

Done.

• File:PasserAmmodendriEgg.jpg needs the date of death of the author.

Shyamal has added this—1915.

• There are a few more sources in the Zoological Record; have you checked those?

I don't have access to the Zoological Record, and I've exhausted all the sources I know of.

I'll have another look myself. Ucucha 19:23, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Overall, quite good and interesting to read. Ucucha 12:13, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

I've made replies to most things. I'll see what I can do with the lead. —innotata 19:19, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Sources:

Title: [An unusual nest site of the Saxaul sparrow Passer ammodendri in Kazakstan.]

Ungewoehnlicher Nistplatz des Saxaulsperlings Passer ammodendri in Kasachstan.

Author(s): Sellin, Dietrich; Tischler, Peter

Source: Ornithologische Mitteilungen Volume: 61 Issue: 4 Page(s): 116-118 Published: 2009

• Don't have access to the journal myself, but from the summary it appears to have been a pylon in Aidarly, Kazakhstan.

Amazing. I'll find the summary and cite it.

Can't find the summary.

All that's in Zool. Rec. is:

Organism	CONTROLLED TERM	Modifier
Passer ammodendri	Breeding site	Unusual nesting site
	Man made habitat	Pylon
	Kazakhstan	Aidarly

But it's a very obscure source, and trivial fact. Ucucha 20:07, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I think I might add it. I forgot you said "pylon"—thought it was wires as with other sparrows, which would be amazing. This may be worth noting, though. —innotata 20:13, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Title: Saxaul sparrows in Iran in April 2004.

Author(s): Aye, Raffael

Source: Dutch Birding Volume: 30 Issue: 5 Page(s): 315-316 Published: 2008

• Probably doesn't add more than that it sometimes occurs in Iran, which you already have.

Yes.

Title: Passeriformes Ploceidae Fringillidae.

Author(s): Fu, Tongsheng; Song, Yujun; Gao, Wei; et al.

Source: Fauna Sinica Volume: Aves 14 Page(s): i-x, 1-323 Published: 1998

A book I can't get. —innotata 19:52, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Me neither. Probably doesn't cover more than what is already in other secondary sources. Ucucha 20:02, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Title: [The sparrow Passer ammodendri.]

Der Saxaulsperling Passer ammodendri.

Author(s): Stahl, Jurgen

Source: Gefiederte Welt Volume: 119 Issue: 12 Page(s): 406-408 Published: Dezember 1995

Can't find this at the Gefiederte Welt website.

Zool. Rec. says it gives "Distribution and biological notes". The journal doesn't seem to be available here. Ucucha 20:14, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Title: Some variants of untypical nesting of birds in the Gobi.

Author(s): Mikhaylov, K.E.

Source: Modern ornithology 1991. Page(s): 268-270 Published: 1992

• Also has something about P. montanus.

Can't find this.

It's a chapter in a book in Russian.

Title: Le moineau domestique et ses cousins du genre 'Passer'. Chapitre 5. Breve nomenclature du genre Passer. Leur synonymie scientifique, francaise, anglaise, allemande et neerlandaise.

Author(s): Ruelle, Marcel

Source: Journal des Oiseaux Volume: 256 Page(s): 42-44 Published: Mai 1992

• Apparently reviewed Saxual's subspecies.

Then I won't look for it given that I know no French! Summers-Smith's classification is pretty definite. —innotata 20:00, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Title: Saxaul sparrow in Mongolia.

Author(s): Densley, M.

Source: Dutch Birding Volume: 12 Issue: 1 Page(s): 5-9 Published: 1990

• Says it has the first published photo.

Got it.

Title: Thermal properties of eggs in some species of the arid zone birds.

Author(s): Ponomareva, T.S.

Source: Zoologicheskii Zhurnal Volume: 61 Issue: 4 Page(s): 576-584 Published: 1982

Title: Interspecific differences in water permeability of egg shells in small Passeriformes, as determined by means of hygrometer.

Author(s): Grazhdankin, A.V.

Source: Zoologicheskii Zhurnal Volume: 60 Issue: 11 Page(s): 1704-1711 Published: 1981

Title: Skin water loss in desert birds and reptiles.

Author(s): Grazhdankin, A.V.

Source: Zoologicheskii Zhurnal Volume: 60 Issue: 2 Page(s): 265-270 Published: 1981

Title: Egg shell permeability and humidity in the nests of desert birds upon natural incubation.

Author(s): Ponomareva, T.S.

Source: Zoologicheskii Zhurnal Volume: 60 Issue: 3 Page(s): 426-431 Published: 1981

Title: The moisture yield of eggs and moisture of nests in some species of birds in the arid zone.

Author(s): Ponomareva, T.S.

Source: Zoologicheskii Zhurnal Volume: 58 Issue: 12 Page(s): 1848-1857 Published: 1979

• Not sure whether we even want to know all this.

I do. The website isn't working now, so I'll check later.

Is there a website?

Yes, and it may have these papers. Otherwise it'll be hard to get these.

Where? I'd be interested in that too—the Russians have described rice rats in that paper, after all. Ucucha 20:37, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I can find abstracts of recent issues in English (like this, but it may be that the connection to the journal page is still down. —innotata 20:51, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Don't think there is full text around there. I can e-mail you the abstracts from the Zoological Record, though. Ucucha 20:57, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I got the impression they had them. Can you send them, though? —innotata 21:04, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Title: On biology of the saxaul sparrow (Passer ammodendri nigricans).

Author(s): Il'yashenko, V.Ya.

Source: Ornitologiya Supplement: No. 14 Page(s): 213-214 Published: 1979

• Apparently mainly on reproduction.

I don't think this is available online, and it is one of the main sources used by Summers-Smith on reproduction, so everything of much note is already there.

Title: Comparative morphology of the intestine relief in representatives of the genus Passer in desert.

Author(s): Amanova, M.A.

Source: Zoologicheskii Zhurnal Volume: 57 Issue: 8 Page(s): 1218-1223 Published: 1978

Title: The pendiline tit, the Spanish sparrow and the saxaul sparrow in the Issyk Kul basin

Author(s): Vtorov, P. P.

Source: Ornitologiya Volume: 8 Page(s): 339-340 Published: 1967

Can't find this.

Doesn't look promising anyway. Ucucha 20:20, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Title: A survey of the birds of Mongolia.

Author(s): Vaurie, C.

Source: Bull. Amer. Mus. nat. Hist. Volume: 127 Page(s): 103-144 Published: 1964

I've been waiting for this to download from the website. Should take some time, maybe I'll try later (http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/dspace/handle/2246/1116)

I'll try later. —innotata 21:04, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

And tried again… —innotata 22:42, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Title: On migration of the sparrow (Passer ammodendri Gould).

Author(s): Spangenberg, E. P.

Source: Migratsii Zhivotnykh. Moscou Volume: 1 Page(s): 147-148 Published: 1959

Unsurprisingly not online. —innotata 20:36, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

& unlikely to add much. Ucucha 20:57, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

And a few very old sources. I believe all the Russian sources in the Zoologicheskii Zhurnal are also translated into the "Zoological Journal" Ucucha 19:40, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

The old sources could be the same books in other languages listed in Summers-Smith. —innotata 21:04, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I am passing this as a GA now. I don't see any obvious deficiencies to prevent it from becoming an FA, except that there are a few sources you should have a look at, and perhaps someone should look over the prose. Ucucha 22:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

That was a quick review; I'm surprised you think this could be an FA. I'll try to improve the text (especially the lead) further, but I don't think it is sensible to expect contributors to find any more sources for a species like this. I've asked Sabine's Sunbird if he can look at or send me the portion of The Handbook of the Birds of the World on this species, and if that is cited I'll send this to FAC as a fully complete article. —innotata 22:50, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

It's longer than some current faunal FAs, at least. The Mongolia source and some others might still be useful, and are easy to come by. Ucucha 22:58, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I think I've looked through all the sources that are easy to come by for me. If this can be an FA, I think I can get three-quarters of the Passer species FAs. —innotata 23:06, 5 April 2010 (UTC)