Talk:ScotRail

Move suggestion

Requested move 15 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Result:
Moved per consensus garnered below. Closure requested <permalink>. Thanks and kudos to all editors for your input, and Happy, Healthy Editing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 10:15, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

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• ScotRail → ScotRail (disambiguation)
• ScotRail Trains → ScotRail

– Incumbent operator (as ScotRail Trains will become on 1 April) should be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Propose that the existing ScotRail article be renamed ScotRail (disambiguation) and ScotRail Trains article be renamed ScotRail. Pre-empting the question will the new operator continue with the ScotRail brand, yes the ScotRail website states:

"The trains and stations will continue to be branded ScotRail. The only change will be to remove the name of the current franchise operator, Abellio where it occurs on signage, websites and printed materials". Stkngjo (talk) 02:34, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Note to closing editor: Should the consensus be to move, propose it not be actioned until after the operator changes, i.e. after 1 April. Stkngjo (talk) 02:37, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

• Support move on 1 April NemesisAT (talk) 13:59, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support on 1 April. 10mmsocket (talk) 18:18, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support move of ScotRail Trains to ScotRail per others above, but a disambiguation page is not required: it just repeats information at ScotRail (brand). So redirect ScotRail (disambiguation) to ScotRail (brand). Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 20:07, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support move on 1 April per nom. I see value in having both a disambigation page giving quick navigational access to the specific article, and the separate prose article detailing the history, etc of the brand so I oppose Shhhnotsoloud's proposal. Thryduulf (talk) 12:50, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

  I agree that the disambiguation page should stay as it is beneficial for navigating between the five articles that now share the name "ScotRail". NemesisAT (talk) 13:19, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Support, and I would also suggest merging most (if not all) of the other 'ScotRail' articles into a history section. The proliferation different prefixes and suffixes may seem justified based on the way that English franchises are organised, but it doesn't reflect normal usage when it comes to the Scottish rail network. David Arthur (talk) 16:50, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

That's a really useful suggestion. 10mmsocket (talk) 17:11, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Comment, a higher level history of the history of ScotRail since the 1980s already exists at ScotRail (brand) with more detail in the operator specific articles, see no need to selectively merge sections. Blamelstone (talk) 10:32, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

I would also oppose any merge. ScotRail (National Express), First ScotRail, and Abellio ScotRail are all sufficiently important to have their own articles IMO. These could probably be expanded. NemesisAT (talk) 10:37, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Are they, though? Three of the four post-1997 incumbents are called just 'ScotRail' in the logo and in ordinary speech, and none of the franchise changes involved a major change in scope (like, say, the merger of Southern, Thameslink, and Great Northern). Such differences as do exist might even be better covered by a single article that can compare all of them, than by a series of separate articles treating them as if they existed in a vacuum. David Arthur (talk) 17:11, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

April 1st is here and the changeover has taken place so I have just requested admin assistance to perform the move at Wikipedia:Closure_requests#Talk:ScotRail_Trains#Requested_move_15_March_2022 --10mmsocket (talk) 15:41, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Rolling stock table - proposal to lock page to anonymous edits

There has been an ongoing issue since this page was created with anonymous users copy/pasting the rolling stock table, which is wholly unsourced, from Abellio Scotrail to this page. A discussion regarding the table has already taken place on the Abellio Scotrail talk page.

As the anonymous edits have been persisting, and have been reverted numerous times now, would it make sense to temporarily lock the page to prevent anonymous editing? Danners430 (talk) 20:54, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

I fully agree it's a PITA and thanks for defending the integrity of the page. Having requested page protection dozens of times, I suspect admins won't do anything because it's a few times a month, not several times a day. I think ultimately the answer is to put something in there about the fleet, properly sourced of course, even if it isn't in the same (crappy) format as in the other article. I did look and couldn't find any substantive sources about exactly what trains the current ScotRail are running - not even on their own website. 10mmsocket (talk) 21:17, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

The October 2022 edition of Modern railways magazine lists a the full Scotrail fleet (table 6, p.32) in connection with the long-term fleet renewal plans that will see all fleets bar the 380s and 385s replaced. This list is completely in line with the fleet details given in the table in the Abellio Scotrail page - though it lists 34 Class 170s instead of 30 as stated the Abellio article and elsewhere. I would edit the page to reflect this confirmation that eg. all the electric fleet remain as they were. However, I am unwilling to given both this discrepancy and the attitude here, which if I'm honest --given the complete lack of any indication of any fleet withdrawals/additions/transfers-- is likely over focussed on wanting a publicly available confirmation of the fleet. 747-200B (talk) 16:54, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Found it!! Here's a single reference published by the *new* ScotRail not the old Abelio ScotRail that confirms the classes and numbers of units in the fleet. It's a primary source but it's good enough to build something simple on the page. Thoughts? 10mmsocket (talk) 21:22, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

I made a very basic start based on the limited verifiable information in the reference. 10mmsocket (talk) 21:37, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I have re-added this table to the page with citations included which should now bring this issue to a close. Maxopolitan (talk) 21:57, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

It looks really god, thank you. 10mmsocket (talk) 22:02, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

2022 strike

While the strike of 2022 is notable enough for a mention, only at a high level, details of service levels on individual lines are not notable per WP:NOTNEWS. The level of service cuts are not particularly notable, see WP:Articles for deletion/2022 ScotRail timetable cuts. Emenhazer (talk) 04:50, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

I disagree. Notability concerns whether something should have its own article, it does not concern the contents of articles. Though perhaps the service cuts for individual lines would be better placed on the individual line pages. NemesisAT (talk) 20:41, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Someone has just created 2022 United Kingdom national rail strike. NemesisAT (talk) 23:04, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Timetable

Is someone able to update the references on this article for Services to the May 2022 timetable? There may be some small changes, but I managed to get what I could. Jalen Folf (talk) 06:12, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

can someone change the 334's hyperlink image to show the loco and not the carriage interior?

i'd do it myself but i'm quite new to wiki and dont know how to do it Redrhuadri (talk) 11:37, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Redrhuadri, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this? The hyperlink links to the WP article for the class 334, so I'm unsure what you mean by the "hyperlink image"? Could you clarify? Danners430 (talk) 10:55, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Redrhuadri, are you referring to Page Previews, the pop-up box that appears when hovering over a wikilink? If so, the image there is taken from the British Rail Class 334 article, therefore changes should ideally be discussed there as it involves that article rather than ScotRail, but happy to continue here. The interior image is shown due to the image's proportions being preferable to the locomotive image at the article (largely due to it being more rectangular). If you are able to find an image on Commons of the BRC 334 locomotive that is roughly 400px-600px wide, or basically less rectangular, then page preview may automatically use that image. Nonetheless, showing the interior of the train is not detrimental to the article, and is a fine image. Considering the current locomotive image at the article is quite new it could be merely cropped over replacing it with a potentially older image. Happy to help if need be. DankJae 14:48, 28 September 2022 (UTC)