Talk:Scottish Conservatives

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party → Scottish Conservative Party — the party hardly ever uses the Unionist in its title and makes no mention of it on its website [[1]Barry O'Brien entretien 05:15, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this is not a vote; comments must include reasons to carry weight.

1. Support --Barry O'Brien entretien 05:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments:

• AFAIAA their candidates use the full, legal title - "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party" - on ballot papers, which is a fairly fundamental location: all their representatives are thus elected under that banner. Can anyone confirm/disprove/shed further light on usage on ballot papers? Is this now discontinued? When and why? What are candidates using on 3 May? --Mais oui! 07:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Im not sure if they dropped it when Dave was rebranding them as a nice party but there seems to be no mention of the title on either the Scottish or the British websites and they are always referred to as the Scottish Tories in the press and the British party is at its most common name rather than its offical one (Conservative and Unionist Party) --Barry O'Brien entretien 13:55, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article has been renamed from Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party to Scottish Conservative Party as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 08:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ScottishTories.gif

Image:ScottishTories.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Scottish conservative logo.PNG

Image:Scottish conservative logo.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Scottish Conservatives lose control to London

• Effective control of the Scottish Conservatives has been passed to London party chiefs while an overhaul aimed at improving their “diabolical” election results north of the Border is implemented., Daily Telegraph, 21 Jan 11

Sunday Times article: "‘Toxic’ Scottish Tory party faces abolition"

• "Murdo Fraser may abolish the Conservative party in Scotland as part of an attempt to make the Tory brand less toxic north of the border. The Conservative party is facing abolition in Scotland after decades of defeat at the ballot box. Murdo Fraser, the Tory deputy leader north of the border, has vowed to wind up the party if he wins its forthcoming leadership contest. In its place, a new party allied to David Cameron and committed to saving the union with England would try to win over centre-right voters who consider the Tory brand toxic. Close allies of the prime minister, including Francis Maude, are said to be supportive of the radical idea after a string of electoral disasters led them to believe the party’s reputation was damaged beyond repair. Other senior figures, including Liam Fox, are expected to oppose the plan, which would have to be endorsed by Conservative Central Office if Fraser emerges as the new Scottish Tory leader on November 4... Fraser, who launches his campaign tomorrow, said: “If I am elected as leader of the party, I will turn it into a new and stronger party for Scotland. A new party, a winning party with new supporters from all walks of life. A new belief in devolution, a new approach to policy-making, a new name.” Names under consideration include Scottish Reform, Scottish Unionists and the Scottish Progressives, which would be put to the party’s membership if Fraser wins. Supporters believe the new party, which would have headquarters in Scotland and support withdrawal from the common fisheries policy and greater decentralisation of power, would draw support from wealthy business figures. A source close to Fraser added: “There is no point in electing another leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. We don’t need a new captain on the bridge of the Titanic. What we need is for the ship not to sink.”"

Jason Allardyce, The Sunday Times, 4 September 2011
--Mais oui! (talk) 05:29, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

"Consequences of Merger" section

The entire "consequences of merger" section is completely unsourced, and includes some factual claims (e.g "With the Daily Record newspaper switching from the Unionists to Labour" [citation needed]) and some subjective assessments (e.g "Combined with the new name, this helped switch previous Unionist voters to the Labour party" [citation needed]).

I can't find any support at all for most of this section. If sources are not provided within the next few days, I will delete it. Does anyone have references for any of this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Major Matrix (talk • contribs) 16:21, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

HUGE FALSFIFICATION OF HISTORY

The entire history of an entire political section of Scottish society over more than a century has been radically falsified. Several rival political parties that existed in the 19th and 20th centuries have been literally wiped out of existence in a majpr rewrite of this article and anachoinistically replaced by a party which only began to exist in 1955.

The tables USED TO SHOW THE ACTUAL PARTIES THAT EXISTED, and how many seats each gained. All of this has been rewritten with their various seats-gained totalled and attributed to a party THAT DID NOT EXIST

This is utterly outrageous. There is no possible excuse for this very very misleading change. It materially falsifies Scotland's history in an astoundingly gross way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.144.186.42 (talk) 19:17, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

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Political Position

The user @HoopaRoopa has modified the political position of the Scottish Conservatives from "centre-right" to "centre-right to right-wing", providing half a dozen citations for them being a right-wing party. However, all the citations are for the UK party rather than the Scottish Conservative Party. While the Scottish Conservatives are a part of the UK Conservative Party, the two are not identical. I think that if the political position is modified to list them as right-wing, it should be using sources that refer specifically to the Scottish Conservatives. Horarum (talk) 12:00, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Recent changes to this page make your point moot, recognising that there is no such entity as Scottish Conservative Party, with or without the Unionist tag. Please check the electoral commission website for clarification, Scottish Conservative is a description registered to the Conservative Party Soosider3 (talk) 19:30, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Autonomy

Creating this to discuss the autonomy of the Scottish conservatives and see if it belongs on the front pages GothicGolem29 (talk) 00:53, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Recent changes make your point moot, no such a party as Scottish Conservative it is fully a part of the Conservative Party Soosider3 (talk) 19:31, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

What recent changes? Not such party but it’s got autonomy I do beleive GothicGolem29 (talk) 04:02, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

You'll need to talk me through that as I find your logic fallible, how can a group that is fully part of a political party be autonomous?. Had this discussion elsewhere but let's go over it. In the UK to be a political party it must be registered with the Electoral Commission , Scottish Conservatives aren't therefore cannot be a political party. They are however registered as a description used by the Conservative Party. Soosider3 (talk) 11:53, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Parts of countries have autonomy despite being a part of a country so it’s the same with parties. They are given autonomy by central leadership to have their own policies. Thats what i believe the Scottish conservatives have and what I know other parties sections of parties have. Idk why you keep bringing up the party thing. We are not discussing if the scottish conservatives are a political party we are discussing if they have autonomy. GothicGolem29 (talk) 09:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Nope your comparing apples and oranges there. As previously stated in uk to be a political party you have to be registered with the electoral commission, there is no such party as Scottish Tories therefore questions of autonomy are moot. , perhaps best to view them as a group around Holyrood, just as there are groupings around local authorities, this does not make them autonomous.

My only real interest in this is that the first 250 or so characters make a thumbnail when linked to, therefore think it important to have a very concise resume.

This discussion is very similar to one had on Scottish Labour may I suggest a wee visit there to follow the discussion and save repetition. Soosider3 (talk) 10:25, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

And again I am not saying they are a political party just that they have autonomy. I would be happy to discuss it in scottish labour too as I also beleive they have also surely autonomous section is more concise than they are apart of the Conservative Party. GothicGolem29 (talk) 21:31, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

ps the wording used is "part of the UK party that operates in Scotland" Soosider3 (talk) 10:28, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

And surely calling them a autonomous section is more concise than that? GothicGolem29 (talk) 21:32, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

You raised this nearly 5 months ago and don't seem to have garnered any support for your suggestion. I take form this that other editors are happy enough with the wording as it exists.

If you do intend to continue, may I suggest you actually define what you mean by autonomy and look very closely at issues like funding, whips, publishing etc Hopefully that might assist you clarify your thinking. For me it is really simple, a party at Local Authority will appoint a leader, this does not make them autonomous although there may be a degree of wriggle room this does not equate to autonomy. Soosider3 (talk) 13:51, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

I mean in Scottish parliament the whip seems to be decided by douglas ross as seen when he gave a free vote on the GRA.funding well they have a donation page so its likely a mix between donations by the central party and by donations by public individuals as well as members. Do you dispute any of this? Here is the scottish conservatives giving a free vote https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,scottish-tories-call-for-free-vote-on-gender-reform-bill the scottish tories dont tend to release member figures so funding may be hard to find as without that number we may not know how much of their funding is from members vs uk party vs private donstions

then what would you consider autonomy? Because we have seen the scottish parties have different policies to the Uk party. They have their own leaders elect their own organisation etc. GothicGolem29 (talk) 01:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC)