Talk:Sea Bright Skiff

Name: One or Two Words?

Using a Google books search to determine the "common name" is a useful first step, but not an end point.

The first, and greatest, problem is that Google tries to figure out what you are looking for, and incorporates its own guesses as to what's a usefull match. So, the first page of results for "Sea Bright Skiff" from my Google search -which can, of course be quite different from your Google search, gets: ( about 2,580 results)

The Sea Bright skiff and other Jersey shore boats Https://books.google.com/books?id=CgtUAAAAMAAJ Peter J. Guthorn - 1971

Guthorn used both terms, varying with edition.

The Nature of Boats: Insights and Esoterica for the Nautically Obsessed https://books.google.com/books?isbn=007024233X Dave Gerr - 1995

Gerr's a two-worder here, mostly "Sea Bright"

Down the Jersey Shore - Page 134 https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0813519969 Russell Roberts, ‎Richard Youmans - 1993 - "For nearly fifty years, Charles Hankins of Lavallette has been building the Sea Bright Skiff, a boat recognized throughout the world as having originated at the Jersey Shore. If you've ever seen a white, wooden "lifeguard boat" lying upside ..."

Roberts and Youmans use "Sea Bright", Hankinses generally did not.

100 Boat Designs Reviewed: Design Commentaries by the Experts https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0937822442 Peter H. Spectre

Spectre is a "Sea Bright" man

American Small Sailing Craft, Their Design, Development, and https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0393031438 Howard Irving Chapelle

Chappell, the Dean of American nautical historians, used "Seabright".

MotorBoating - Sep 1929 - Page 49 https://books.google.com/books?id=ye3ju5RwapEC Vol. 44, No. 3 - ‎Magazine - ‎Full view GALILEE, A DOUBLE ENDED SKIFF A Vee Bottom Seabright Design of Unusual Type But With Many Possibilities Designed especially for MOTOR BOATING By WILLIAM ATKIN BENBOW—A DEEP SEA AUXILIARY Structural Detail: of [in ...

One word, for an Atkins design.

American Folk Art: A Regional Reference [2 volumes]: A Regional ... https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0313349371 Kristin G. Congdon, ‎Kara Kelley Hallmark - 2012 - ‎ "These skiffs came in many varieties and sizes, but all would sit upright on the beach and were sturdy enough to carry tons of fish through the turbulent New Jersey surf. Sea Bright Skiffs were first produced on the Jersey shore sometime ..."

"Folk art" 'Nough said.

Monmouth Beach And Sea Bright - Page 17 https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0738549061 Randall Gabrielan - Their pound boat was a typical Sea Bright skiff enlarged to about 50 by 10 feet. The square-sterned, lap-streaked, seaworthy, capacious open boat typically required a crew of six and a team of horses to land on the beach. This image of the ...

Arcadia, with all that implies.

Inland Passage: On Boats & Boating in the Northeast - Page 68 https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0813525411 David W. Shaw - 1998 - ‎Preview ... John Leek, Sr., and Russell Post began to make names for themselves, can trace their lapstrake construction, round bilges, and relatively straight sheer to the Sea Bright skiff. Known generically as a Jersey skiff, these sixteen-foot boats were ...

Two words.

MotorBoating - May 1951 - Page 121 https://books.google.com/books?id=yDSQAynEmCwC Vol. 87, No. 5 - ‎Magazine Among craft which were not designed for high speeds is the famed Seabright skiff, a practical boat whose sea-keeping ability has become a tradition. These excellent hulls have proved themselves over the years and are presently enjoying a ...

One word.

If this is a representative sample, then many of the examples found by a "sea bright skiff" search do not, in fact use the term, and many are...let's say "less expert" sources.

Looking at the second group of 10, it's even worse: one is about the "bright sea", with a skiff in it someplace, and at least 3 are "Seabright", corrected to two words.

Moving on to page three, a strange thing happens...it runs out of cites. Wassup with that?

Looking at my Googling of "seabright skiff", first page I see:

About 397 results (0.30 seconds)

The Rudder - Volume 38 https://books.google.com/books?id=Krc6AAAAMAAJ Thomas Fleming Day - 1922

MotorBoating - Sep 1929 - Page 49 https://books.google.com/books?id=ye3ju5RwapEC Vol. 44, No. 3 - ‎Magazine - ‎Full view

Boats - Volume 19 - Page 27 https://books.google.com/books?id=egU0AQAAMAAJ 1922 - ‎Read - ‎More editions

The Motor Boat: Devoted to All Types of Power Craft https://books.google.com/books?id=cfQ3AQAAMAAJ 1922 - ‎Read - ‎More editions

https://books.google.com/books?id=TOg_AQAAMAAJ 1922 - ‎Read - ‎More editions

American Small Sailing Craft, Their Design, Development, and ... https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0393031438 Howard Irving Chapelle - 1951 -

MotorBoating - Oct 1924 - Page 35 https://books.google.com/books?id=yEYotEQHRsAC Vol. 34, No. 4 - ‎Magazine

MotorBoating - May 1951 - Page 121 https://books.google.com/books?id=yDSQAynEmCwC Vol. 87, No. 5 - ‎Magazine - ‎Full view

Motorboating - ND - Jul 1949 - Page 43 https://books.google.com/books?id=UPQ1AQAAMAAJ Vol. 84, No. 1 - ‎Magazine - ‎Full view

Ideal Series - Volume 47 - Page 128 https://books.google.com/books?id=TgRUAAAAMAAJ Charles Frederic Chapman - 1958 -

-all of which use Seabright exclusively, all solid sources -although three of them are the same article, essentially, in three different periodicals. Note Chappell, Chapman, Atkins, Day.

Next Few pages show the same pattern, all very, very solid cites. It adds some more notable experts: Bolger, Proceedings, Britannica..Zane Grey. Gerr in an older work; and they keep going twice as long as the the "Sea Bright" books do. Wassup with that?

So, despite the intial count, Google displays far, far more different books and periodicals for "seabright", and the sources are far stronger. Spectre and Parker are about the only good 'uns solidly on the "Sea Bright" side. Anmccaff (talk) 04:12, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

You fail to understand WP:COMMONNAME. The article for the former president is titled Bill Clinton, not William Jefferson Clinton or William Jefferson Blythe III, which have strong sources on his driver's license and original birth certificate. The sources you cite showing "Seabright" as one word are overwhelmingly decades old and outnumbered by a far larger number of sources supporting "Sea Bright" in the title. Spend a bit more time reading COMMONNAME before making any further such changes and make sure that you have consensus for your changes before ramming them through; Wikipedia works based on consensus, not on one editor arbitrarily declaring himself to be right because he has direct and privileged access to "truth". Alansohn (talk) 13:25, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Um, no. Perfectly familiar with it. Since, as I've mentioned above, and you have failed to address, the overwhelming number of actual cites seem to favor "Seabright", and the strong majority of scholarly and expert cites continue to favor "Seabright", I don't see why we should support ignorant usage. Wiki has an article called light aircraft, despite the fact that a depressing number of people still call them all Piper Cubs.

Next, to reiterate. Actually checking the listed books and periodicals last night there are far, far, less actual cites showing for "Sea Bright". It gives a large number at the start, but actually clicking through only yeilded 4 pages of cites. Today, the exact same search yield twice as many -90 cites, but...

In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 90 already displayed. If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included.

Doing that still only shows about 200 results.

Searching last night on "seabright skiff" I got 397 hits; this morning, using the exact same words, I get 1,840. Actually clicking through them, at 140 -noticable more than for "sea bright skiff" -when it gives:

In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 140 already displayed. If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included.

This yields 201 results. Now, searching the same words, but restricting for time, will get that many hits in a single magazine.

Bottom line? Just counting Google hits isn't meaningful. Google is tailored to region, demographic, even individual, it is designed not to show what is out there, but what it thinks you want to find. If you are English, it will give you hits on "windshield" when you search for "windscreen"; if American, vice-versa.

The tool isn't designed to casually do what you ask it. Anmccaff (talk) 15:40, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

On the other point: I realize that you don't appear to have much substantive to say here, but that doesn't justify using personal attack as filler. You, frankly, seem to be the person who believes he has direct and privileged access to "truth", since you self-sourced part of an article...or plagiarized it, one or the other: would you mind clearing that up? Anmccaff (talk) 15:40, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Jllm06, you've seen the article and made some tweaks. Any thoughts on whether the title should be "Sea Bright Skiff" vs. "Seabright Skiff"? Alansohn (talk) 03:24, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Dinghy

A dinghy is a boat's tender, or a small sailer based on them. The Seabright is not a dinghy, except in the very loosest of senses. (Neither is a Whitehall, but that's another matter.) Anmccaff (talk) 04:24, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Is a fishing boat really "transportation?"

More like production, mostly, in the case of the Seabright Skiff. Anmccaff (talk) 23:18, 11 May 2017 (UTC)