Talk:Serpent (instrument)/Archive 1

Archive 1

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, and eventually evolved into the saxophone

I don't think that's accurate. Certainly one of the Sax family (I forget which) was noted as a competent serpent player, but I think it's a stretch to say either the serpent or ophicleide was a direct ancestor of the saxophone. Willing to be proven wrong of course! Andrewa 05:24, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

The saxophone/serpent discussion

Andrewa is correct that the saxophone did not evolve from the serpent. In fact (not an apocryphal story), the saxophone came about after Adolphe Sax experimented with an ophicleide (Charles Sax was a prolific ophicleide maker) by putting a bass clarinet mouthpiece instead of a cup shaped ophicleide brasswind mouthpiece on it. The resulting sound (try it) is remarkably like the modern saxophone. Sax subsequently modified the ophicleide adding more keys and making modifications to its shape, resulting in the saxophone family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yeodoug (talk • contribs) 23:25, 2006 June 2 (UTC)

Characteristics

This section seems very confusing to me. I think it could be written better. I have never played a serpent, but I was a dulcian player, and also played numerous other Rennaisance instruments starting about 30 years ago. Anthony Baines in his books describes the serpent very well. Perhaps his books could be used as a reference for the unique characteristics of the serpent.

As I understand it, the lower hand supports the instrument and therefore the three fingers used are in the reverse order compared to straight woodwinds such as recorders, clarinets, etc. This section in the article could express that idea, but as it stands, it does not.

Just pointing it out. Nice to see such an article in Wikipedia. I am not prepared to do the editing. I read and make suggestions. Thank you. 69.166.29.13 (talk) 14:39, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Contrabass ("anaconda"), Tenor ("serpent") and Soprano ("worm").

The article is confusing at this point. The normal serpent is a BASS instrument, not a tenor. This section needs to be amended. I am a reader of Wikipedia and I rarely edit things, except for the few little grammar things I see. I don't rewrite much of anything. I am just suggesting that there is a problem here. I have played Rennaisance instruments for 30 years. Perhaps one of the editors will sort out this obvious error and re-do it. 69.166.29.13 (talk) 14:57, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

 Done — Jon (talk) 22:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

However, later models added keys as on a clarinet

"However, later models added keys as on a clarinet"...

I think that is midleading. What sort of clarinet? Maybe the earliest clarinets made by Denner, but not the modern clarinet. Many people reading this article will think that the serpent had modern key systems added. The serpent had keys added, yes... but they were like the keys added to the Dulcian, and the Crumhorn. Thank you. I am not amending the article, just suggesting repairs to it. I was involved in old music for 30 years. Recently sold my Dulcian and other inmstuments after health issues. So, just looking at articles here on Wikipedia, and suggesting ways in which things could be improved. 69.166.29.13 (talk) 15:10, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

 Done — Jon (talk) 22:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Relation to cornett

The first sentence says the serpent is not related to the cornett. This is followed almost immediately with a sentence saying it is closely related to the cornett, though not descended from. Suggest a different word than "related" in order to clear up the contradiction. 24.217.34.210 (talk) 22:51, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

I wonder if the first one is a reference to the Cornet (with one "t"), but if so, that statement should go after the one saying the serpent is related to the Cornett (with two "t"s) as a clarification since "cornett" and "cornet" are nearly identical words but refer to two different instruments not related to each other. — al-Shimoni (talk) 06:47, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

I suggest using language similar to Britannica: "It was probably invented in 1590 by Edme Guillaume, a French canon of Auxerre, as an improvement on bass versions of the closely related cornett." 2600:1700:30D0:2390:653E:2E87:3261:814E (talk) 02:41, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

This page regarding the lizard clearly places it as midway between the cornett and the serpent: https://www.music.iastate.edu/antiqua/instrument/lizard 2600:1700:30D0:2390:9CBF:3620:43AD:A277 (talk) 18:29, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

I've copy-edited the opening paragraph, which should avoid too much detail, and then provided an explanation in the Characteristics section, with the ref from Clifford Bevan's Tuba Family book. As one of the few references that goes into the serpent's history in detail, and re-reading the chapter, the History section really needs a good re-write and could be considerably expanded. Douglas Yeo has more to say about the serpent too, in various journals (not just his website). If nothing else we need to at least mention the late 20th century English revival of the instrument propelled at first by Christopher Monk and other members of the London Serpent Trio. I don't have much spare time right now but I'll try and make a start in the next week or two if nobody else does :-) Cheers—Jon (talk) 03:56, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

 Done — Jon (talk) 22:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)