Talk:Shirkuh

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The funny thing about this article is, "Shirkuh" is not a kurdish name and the uncle of Saladin was not a kurd, "Shirkuh" never used in kurdish language as "the lion mountain", because its origin is pure iranian word. "Shirkuh" even did not spoke kurdish himself. Can someone give objective and neutral sources for the kurdish-nationalist claims in the article? Thanks. --LACongress 10:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

See, where the name originally came from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shir_Kuh
"Shir Kuh or Shirkuh (in Persian: شيركوه) (literally: The lion mountain) is a 4075m high mountain in central Iran, in Yazd province, beside the city of Yazd."
And Yazd is a iranian region, there are no kurds. Here you can see, where Yazd is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazd
The kurdish claims in the article are absolutely ridiculous.
--LACongress 10:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

ROFL, the article is completely POV! "He was the son of Shahdi, a Kurdish ruler ..." This makes me laugh, because is an iranian name with indian roots. It is not a kurdish name and shahdi even was not a kurdish, but persian ruler! --LACongress 10:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

It is your ignorance and lack of knowledge about Aryan languages and history that is ridiculous and embarassing. Shirkouh is an Iranic name meaning 'lion of mountains', Both Kurdish and Persian are Iranian languuges, like both your Uzbeki and Tatar are Altaic; so naturally and basically Shirkouh is both Kurdish and Persian. Kurds use its simplified form Sherko [1] as a given male name, though Persians don't use it (except for toponyms). For your information even both names of Shadi and Turan are of Iranic origin. Next time you try to dispute a Kurdish-related thing, do some research before making alarming mistakes. SohrabeDelavar 14:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Thats ridiculous. Speaking an iranian dialect doesnt make the kurds to aryans. If you have read the kurd-wikipedia article, the kurds claim to be genetically far away from iranians. The kurdish nationalists must decide some time which identity they want to distribute as kurdish nationalist propaganda in the world. Its really funny, kurdish ancestors that dont speak kurdish, doesnt live the kurdish culture are claimed to be kurdish. The problem with historic claims is, that nobody can proof the identity or ethnical background of a person. In former times everybody who lived as a nomad was called ekrad or kurd. Because of saladins ancestors where nomads, thats not the proof he was a kurd. Even his father was an iranian, not kurdish. --LACongress 02:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh great, not this crap again. Saladin and his family were Kurdish; we don't know if they spoke Kurdish, or if they identified as Kurdish, but they were ethnically Kurdish. This has absolutely nothing to do with Kurdish nationalism - I wrote this article, and I neither a Kurd, an Arab, a Persian, or a Turk. Anyway, are medieval Kurds not allowed to have Persian names? Persian language and culture were dominant at the time. Your argument about the mountain is irrelevant - Shirkuh was not named after the mountain, and this has nothing to do with the region of Yazd. Adam Bishop 14:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Thats the problem of the kurdish POV propaganda, Saladan never ever said he is kurdish. His family is totaly mixed. His ancestors were pure iranians and not kurdish (see genetic distance between kurds and persians). Yazd is the region where Saladins family came from. In the whole family of Saladin, there is not one single person with kurdish names, ask yourself why! --LACongress 02:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually I am not Kurdish and totally agree with you Adam Bishop; I just wanted to reply to some Turkish ultra nationalist (chauvunism) propaganda regarding distortion of history and especially attacking Kurdish-related topics. Thanks SohrabeDelavar 14:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I am iranian, you dumbass idiot. The only thing you can do is insulting and writing kurdish fashist propaganda. --LACongress 02:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Vasili Nikitine quoting Vladimir Minorsky says “Very early in the Arab historiography the word kurd became a synonyme for nomad”[4].The anthropologist Van Bruinessen says “Medieval arab geographers used the term ‘Kurd’ (in its arabic plural form ‘Akrad’) to denote all nomadic or semi-nomadic tribes that were neither Arab nor Turkish”[5].
[4] Nikitine Basile, 1956/1975, Les Kurdes, étude sociologique et historique, Librairie Klincksiek, Paris, p. 9.
[5] Van Bruinessen Martin, 1999, Agha, Shaykh and State. The social and political structures of Kurdistan, New Jersey, Zed Books Ltd, p. 111.
--LACongress 03:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

On the Saladin Wikipedia Page the kurdish nationalist like to bring sources from Minorsky. See what Minorsky says (Studies in Caucasian History, pp. 114-16, 123, 128-30), says that the Rawadya Kurds are connected to the descendants of the Arab general Rawwad Azd, who was governor of Tabrz ca. 200/815. These men, having become Kurdicized (means assimilated), emerge in the late fourth/tenth century as the paramount clan among the powerful Hadobanya tribe in Azerbaijan, whence one branch moved to take up residence in the district of Dvin at some point in the eleventh century. The kurdish ultranationalists claim he is kurdish, but Saladin never said that he is kurdish. His ancestory came from Iran --LACongress 03:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Name and other stuff

This is what modern extreme nationalism (both Persian and Kurdish), an inherent laziness (apparent in the nonsensical references in both the "article" and the discussion) and a resistance towards being objective brings you.

For the relationship between Kurdish and Persian (for both the dumb discussion on the "Persian" or "Kurdish" meaning of the name), please just read ANY article on Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, and Iranian philology, even the stupid Wikipedia ones. Simply put, Persian and Kurdish are both members of the Iranian Language Family and it is natural that names used by speakers of either languages would either be similar in the other language or make sense in it. Ever notice that the English "William", German "Wilhelm" and Dutch "Willem" sound the same, geniuses? They ARE the same.

So, the dumb, utterly ridiculous "meaning" of the name Shirkuh (the genius writing that one couldn't even spell English properly!) is an insult to Shirkuh himself! Shirkuh DOES mean "Lion of the Mountain", and if you have not noticed, the name of his father was Shadhi, from Persian "Shadi" (Old Persian Shiyati-) which means "happiness". People 1000 years ago were A LOT more open-minded that their "modern" descendants who thrive on petty differences and ethnic-feuds. if you notice, Shirkuh's brother is called Ayyub (Arabic), his nephew Yusuf (Hebrew) and another nephew, Tughtakin (Turkish). So, get a life!

The family of Shirkuh, the so-called Ayyubids, were ethnically Kurdish, and to make all you claybrains even more annoyed, they were originally the retainers of the Arab dynasty of Shaddadis (in Caucasian Albania, modern day Republic of Azerbaijan) and part of an old Albanian-Armenian local aristocracy. So, now go fight over your "heritage"! --Khodadad (talk) 09:35, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

You think you are very smart, but there is a place where you made a mistake.There is kinship between the Germans and the British, including the royal family.Genetic studies have shown that after the fall of the Roman Empire, Anglo-Saxon tribes migrated to modern England, with the result that almost half of the British were blood related to the Germans. Flagellum Dei ATTILA (talk) 13:12, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

You're replying to a 13 year old comment, to a user who hasn't edited in 2 years. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:42, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Bu gönderiye cevap verdim ki herkes gerçek cevabı bilsin.I replied so that those who read what that person wrote would not be affected by what they wrote wrong. Flagellum Dei ATTILA (talk) 14:03, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Not sure why you are writing in Turkish, I can't speak it, and this is the English Wiki. And what makes you think people would think you are right? You don't "win" by being the last to comment. Please see WP:FORUM and WP:SOAPBOX. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:19, 19 April 2023 (UTC)