Talk:Team Socceroo F.C.

Requested move 5 February 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 (talk) 08:56, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

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Sigla F.C. → Team Socceroo F.C. – WP:NOTINHERITED, the club never played in the UFL as "Sigla FC" as originally planned. The club as "Sigla FC" fails to meet WP:GNG. I know that WP:NOTTEMPORARY, once a certain organization became notable, they are "forever notable". But there is a precedent (the historic Mabuhay Satellite Corporation which operated the Philippines' first satellite, now known as the Mabuhay Investment Corporation which is your ordinary holdings firm). The situation here is a top league football club in a country suddenly renamed themselves with a complete brand overhull but then fails to participate and settle in youth development, joining open/weekend tournaments. It would be better if this article is renamed back to Team Soccerroo and just take note that the club rebranded and changed their name. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 08:33, 5 February 2017 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 19:43, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:NAMECHANGES - Most recent sources (actually, last year's), SPIN (Philippines; not to be confused with the other SPIN) and Inquirer.net, use the current title. However, the sources mentioning this subject can be scarce. At least the official website uses the current title. A mere title change wouldn't affect the article content, which needs more improvement and research. George Ho (talk) 22:38, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Comment: Note that the given sources have to state "Sigla FC (formerly Team Socceroo)", meaning "Sigla FC" arguably isn't the common name. The club's activities as Sigla FC has little coverage beyond primary sources; fails WP:GNG. The club's activities as Team Soccerroo made it notable in the first place as per WP:FOOTYN. A mere title change won't change the article content alright - that's a given but in an event of a successful move, the article will need some tweaking such as the infobox.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 23:31, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose It's the club's current name. Number 57 16:52, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 25 June 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved.The support arguments are good enough and the lone oppose !vote ain't much policy-based.The abbreviation FC is frequently used in these cases.(non-admin closure) Winged Blades ^Godric 12:03, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

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Sigla F.C. → Team Socceroo F.C. – Reopening the move request. Perhaps I was not clear with my arguments for the move.

Summarizing my arguments:

• Sigla FC as Team Socceroo F.C. was notable as a participant in the country's de facto national league.
• Sigla FC is not notable under its current incarnation. They only conduct football clinics and participate in open sunday league type of youth tournaments.

I was the one who moved it to Sigla F.C. under the presumption they will remain in the national league under the new name but they did drop out from the league.

To make an analogy - a hypothetical one and a highly improbable one.

If Bayern Munich or FC Barcelona announced that they will be competing under a drastically different new name the next season and later decided to withdrew from the league and decided to solely compete in minor community-based weekend football leagues. Would we change the article names of the club? Or create new articles of the clubs' new incarnation?

The claim of notability of the club, is its one of the participants of the now defunct United Football League. No one is going to talk about "Sigla FC competed in the UFL" without some disclaimer like "Sigla F.C. formerly/then known as Team Soccerooo".

The article's content could be tweaked into this if moved back to Team Socceroo F.C. acknowledging the name change while putting more weight to its incarnation as Team Socceroo FC.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 09:18, 25 June 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. TheSandDoctor (talk) 07:39, 3 July 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. bd2412 T 03:34, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose Per the last time. We should not have an extant entity at its former name. Number 57 11:25, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Why not, if the entity at its current incarnation aren't going to meet notability unless they join the Philippines Football League?Hariboneagle927 (talk) 11:56, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

But the club is notable. The fact that it gained its notability when it had a different name doesn't mean that we don't recognise its subsequent name change. Number 57 17:25, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

No-one is pretending that the name change never existed by renaming back the article. Is there any particular policy that dictates that we should always follow the current name of an extant organization?Hariboneagle927 (talk) 11:52, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Common sense? Number 57 17:39, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

My common sense clearly differs from yours, what am I asserting is that Sigla F.C. is not notable in its current incarnation and ignoring all its involvement in the top national league fails WP:GNG since there are practically no sources regarding the club post-UFL. There is WP:NOTTEMPORARY hence no one is insisting deleting the article just because it became a non-notable football grassroots camp/club but nothing is also said that this approach can't be done.

Given my non-football example, Mabuhay Satellite Corporation is the former name of an extant entity but its currently named as such and not "Mabuhay Investment Corporation". The company is notable for operating the Philippines' first satellite but it changed its name to Mabuhay Investment Corporation which isn't a notable company at all. Granted that its a change to a different industry it is technically the same company, the articles of incorporation was just ammended. I concede that it is I who also moved the name though. Hope you could at least understand my arguments even though you may disagree with it. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 12:37, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

• Support per WP:NAMECHANGES - "If the sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match." In this case, however, the club is no longer notable, which means that there are no reliable sources writing about it after the change (because if there were, then it would pass WP:GNG in its current form). Therefore the name before the change still continues to be the WP:COMMONNAME in reliable sources. And this is not just being pedantic - since its notability is derived from its spell as Team Socceroo FC, that's what readers are likely to remember and look for.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:08, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
• Move to Sigla Football Club or Team Socceroo Football Club. Abbreviations in titles are to be avoided. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:45, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Abbreviating Football Club to FC seems to be the consensus when it comes to football clubs. "FC Barcelona" instead of Futbol Club Barcelona. Also WP:CONCISEHariboneagle927 (talk) 17:06, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

• Support per WP:NAMECHANGES, and Team Socceroo is the WP:COMMONNAME. Evertonfc13 (talk) 15:09, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.