Talk:2011 South Sudanese independence referendum

Clean/organise

The article needs to be better organised perhaps akin to other refereundum articles with sections, etc. Also needs updating (an ITN nom was given [1])Lihaas (talk) 00:29, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

THe only reason the tag was on because another set of eyes needs to read the oil, tribl differences adn demarcation sections that were merged.

Also the controversy section needs organisation.

then feel free to remove it if sanctioned as a-ok.(Lihaas (talk) 00:23, 10 January 2011 (UTC)).

I've done a little bit of work to clean up the Issues and Controversies sections: among other things, I've moved the "violence" section under "Voting", since it's related to violence during the voting process; I moved the "precedents" bit into "Issues", and split the "Efforts..." subsection into its own section below "Issues". The work definitely isn't finished; I've only done a quick inspection of the whole thing. Please feel free to putter around and improve things further. The more structure, the better; let's move this away from being a huge wall of text. --dragfyre_ʞןɐʇc 18:09, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

The main issues of the 3 subjects was added by someone else, it looked good to add context tot he article so i merge but didnt go through the details (ie- seeming copyvio) of them. Otherwise most of the merging looks good. im going to do a little more here and there.(Lihaas (talk) 18:17, 15 January 2011 (UTC)).

precedence

the kosovo see also is added in line with the "extenral precedence" in its controversy of seetting off a storm.(Lihaas (talk) 08:19, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Redacted not a soapbox

This is an encyclopedia article based on sourced material, not a place for persuasion, a particular point of view, and original research/synthesis. Furthermore, this Talk page is not here to discuss the issue of the referendum in general. There are numerous places on the internet to do this. This Talk page is to discuss the article itself. Please refrain from persuasive speeches and original research in the talk page and article. There are better places to express these opinions.Jbower47 (talk) 20:02, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Redacted Soap box rant

This is an encyclopedia article based on sources material, not a position article or opinion piece. This is not the place to discuss your opinion of the legitimacy of the referendum. If you have issues with some fact stated in the article, please present a credible referenced source that refutes it, and then it can be discussed. There are MANY places on the internet to discuss your opinion on Sudanese politics. This article, and especially this Talk page is not one of them. The Talk page is a place to discuss issues with the article, not the topic in general.Jbower47 (talk) 20:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Their Flag

Shouldn't we include the Flag of Southern Sudan?

The flag of the Government of Southern Sudan

Invmog (talk) 15:26, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Sure but under what content? the campaign i guess, but one must demostrante cited relevance (of the FLAG that is, to the vote) (Lihaas (talk) 22:22, 9 January 2011 (UTC)).

UN?

If Southern Sudan does declare independence will they join the UN or will they be an observer? Spongie555 (talk) 04:57, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

This question is better for the refdesk, but it seems like all parties agree to respect a referendum result should the prerequisite 60% take part. So it seems with no objection it should join the un. salva kir as general assembly head in a few years? Perhaps Perhaps Perhaps.(Lihaas (talk) 10:57, 11 January 2011 (UTC)).

Marked "dubious"?

Why is the link to the http://www.sudanvotemonitor.com/ marked "Dubious"? And why wasn't that followed up on the talk page (per the usage)? Sudan Vote Monitor is an Ushahidi installation, run by a coalition of well respected South Sudanese and foreign NGOs. The lead group comes from the Sudan Institute for Research and Policy. See interview here (Sudan's First SMS-Powered Voting Monitor Tracks "Violence," "Intimidation". Jenara Nerenberg. Fast Company. Dec 10, 2010.) There's enough third party independent reporting of the initiative that it might merit a place in the article, let alone making it a valuable external link. Unless someone has an axe to grind, I can't see how it is dubious. 38.99.217.54 (talk) 17:52, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

it seemed pov from a glance at itw page and "about us" but go head and remove it.(Lihaas (talk) 21:48, 11 January 2011 (UTC)).b

It may be pov, but providing it doesn't unbalance the neutrality of the page it is acceptable to link to external sites that are non-neutral. Dubious is the wrong tag - it is for marking doubtful claims. removing Zeimusu | Talk page 22:02, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

It "may be pov, but"? neutrality is not balanced by linking to a pov source as thats Undue.(Lihaas (talk) 03:38, 15 January 2011 (UTC)).

Naming

According to BBC, a flag and an anthem for the future state (given a sucessful secession from Sudan) already exist, but a name has not been decided upon. Are there propositons for the name of the new country? -- megA (talk) 12:45, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

"Equatoria" might be high on the list, but I don't know (User:Zazaban, not logged in.) 66.183.11.233 (talk) 18:15, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Um, is this speculation or is this name actually considered? -- megA (talk) 16:09, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

if spourced to RS then feel free to add to the campaign part of some subsection thereof.Lihaas (talk) 03:40, 15 January 2011 (UTC)).

I heard that the name of the country would be Republic of Kush. --maxval (talk) 11:47, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Do you have anything that you can link to that says that? I'm not doubting you, but we need something more substantial in order to add it to the article.—Soap— 22:41, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

If I had any authoritive link, I would have added this info to the article. But I dont have. I have this info from somebody who was there as part of some international mission. --maxval (talk) 12:59, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Id support putting this in with the caveat that it came from the guardian.(Lihaas (talk) 15:04, 18 January 2011 (UTC)).

It is reported in the Guardian that Vice-President Riek Machar has stated that the country will be called South Sudan. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/16/southern-sudan-independence-expectations?INTCMP=SRCH

Bold title

per "Most commonly, the article's subject is stated as early as possible in the first sentence, and placed in boldface:" and "Only the first occurrence of this word or term is placed in boldface." i dont see why the bold titles were altogether removed as they are in the first sentenceLihaas (talk) 03:40, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

There is no "exact" article for the subject of this article so the removal was warranted. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:15, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

yes, thats why the bold is spaced out in the first sentence per the wikipedia guideline(Lihaas (talk) 21:18, 17 January 2011 (UTC)).

I dunno what that means, but if the boldfaced words are not together, it shouldn't be boldfaced. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 04:31, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

If you want to be WP:Bold a reword could doo..??(Lihaas (talk) 15:06, 18 January 2011 (UTC)).

Lemme put it this way, the title of the subject of the article about Barack Obama is a noun -- w/c is "Barack Obama." Whatever the title of the article about the subject of this article is, or however the first sentence is reworded, it will always be a modifier and its corresponding subject (hence "Southern Sudanese" is the subject then "2011 independence referendum" is the modifier); ergo it shouldn't be boldfaced. This is inline w/ article titles such as the various "Music of Final Fantasy X" "political positions of Barack Obama" (and all "<adjective> of <subject>" articles), all election articles, etc. See WP:BOLDTITLE, "Descriptive titles." –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 18:56, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Shouldnt be bold face at all or just the 3 different words? For the former i digress, though id easily accept an alternative to the latter.(Lihaas (talk) 21:55, 18 January 2011 (UTC)).

No word should be boldfaced. At all. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:17, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Section headings

I'm changing "Elections" to "Voting", since this is a referendum, not an election—no one is being "elected". Please discuss here in case there are strong reasons why "Elections" should be used. --dragfyre_ʞןɐʇc 00:54, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

the main reason was that it was a standard format for pages like thiese. even for other referendum articls. an election doesnt have to be for a person alone, a decision is also made/chosed.(Lihaas (talk) 02:34, 17 January 2011 (UTC)).

Copyright status of article text

I was just reviewing some of the text in this article, notably in the "Oil" subsection under "Issues", and after doing a quick Google search, I realized that the following text is copied and pasted directly from the referenced article (http://www.majalla.com/en/geopolitics/article207001.ece), without being quoted as such. The text did not exist in the WP article before the date the source article was printed, which indicates that the text was indeed copied-and-pasted from the source, which amounts to a copyright violation.

The majority of armed fighters are not the ones whose pockets are lined by oil revenue. For these individuals, boosting the nation’s economy is no motivation to stop the violence. (Google Search)

But if Sudan falls into further civil warring, it could cost $100 billion, a price Sudan cannot afford and the international community doesn’t want to pay. (Google Search)

I don't see a problem with using the Majalla article as a source, but its text should not be copied and pasted straight onto Wikipedia. Not only is it forbidden by WP policy, but it hurts the readability of the WP article. Any text that has been copied and pasted into this article from copyrighted sources will have to be refactored and rewritten. --dragfyre_ʞןɐʇc 01:20, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

thats a reason for the tag. we can remove most and shorten the issue to clean that out.(Lihaas (talk) 02:36, 17 January 2011 (UTC)).

OK—I can't do much more work on it right now, so I've indicated this in the cleanup tags; it should be dealt with promptly though, as copyvios are a pretty serious problem for an article. If you'd like to go through and delete whatever seems to fit the bill, you should probably go ahead. A little original material is better than a lot of copyvio. --dragfyre_ʞןɐʇc 03:10, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

The copy-paste tag added to the article listed it for review automatically at the copyright problems board. It has now been over a week since the content was tagged, and this material still constitutes a violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy. For instance, as of the point of blanking, the article included the following text:

The majority of armed fighters are not the ones whose pockets are lined by oil revenue. For these individuals, boosting the nation’s economy is no motivation to stop the violence. According to a December 3 article published by the London-based magazine Al-Majalla, “Warring groups might respond to the urging of their political leader. In support of the economic rationale for peace, a report co-launched by the Institute for International Security explains that if both sides attain and sustain peace, it will bring in more profits for the country and encourage investors.” If Sudan separates, it could cost the country $100 billion, a price Sudan cannot afford and the international community does not want to pay.

The source says:

The majority of armed fighters are not the ones whose pockets are lined by oil revenue. For these individuals, boosting the nation’s economy is no motivation to stop the violence. Warring groups might respond to the urging of their political leaders, though. In support of the economic rationale for peace, a report co-launched by the Institute for International Security explains that if both sides attain and sustain peace, it will bring in more profits for the country and encourage investors. But if Sudan falls into further civil warring, it could cost $100 billion, a price Sudan can’t afford and the international community doesn’t want to pay.

The content seems to have been first added here, with other content also pasted from other sources. I cannot account for the "bot generated title" tag, as I cannot find any evidence that this was copied from another article. But for a few (not exhaustive) examples:

• "Sudan watchers fear that without the unifying goal of an independent south to fight for, discontent may grow over the government’s poor provision of basic services, corruption and bad behavior by the south’s ill-trained army." comes from [2] (so does the sentence above it, even though it's referenced to somewhere else).
• "Those living on the demarcation border and internally displaced (IDP) fear that the South split from the North will harden the border, threatening their livelihood and security." is copied from [3]
• "According to the International Monetary Fund, Sudan's gross domestic product has nearly tripled since Sudan's president, Omar Hassan al-Bashir took power in 1989" (and, obviously, more) comes from [4].
• The entire section beginning "South Sudan is ..crisscrossed" and ending "still more violence could follow" is copied from [5]. While in quotation marks, the content is extensive and not used for any transformative purpose, nor is it attributed. It violates WP:NFC.
• "The 1,200-mile border region between north and south is among the most resource-rich and ethnically diverse areas of Sudan. Predominantly Arab pastoralists from north of the border who journey southward each year to graze their livestock “fear that demarcation will prevent their seasonal movement.”" is copied entirely from [6]. I have no idea why part of it is in quotation marks but not the rest. Other content is copied from the article ("One of the contested areas encompasses...")
• "The Misseriya, a tribe that migrates each year to the Abyei region looking for pastures for their cattle, have threatened to carry out acts of violence in the region if they are not allowed to vote." is copied from [7].

Putting quotation marks around some of the words and minimally altering others does not bring the material in line with our copyright policy, I'm afraid, and instead creates a real risk of forming a derivative work. I believe that unless we can somehow establish that this content was ours before it was published by these multiple sources, all of the content added in that edit needs to be rewritten or excised. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 18:01, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

References

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 15:19, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

See section immediately above. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 15:19, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Voter Forms

I'm not familiar with Hand signs for seperation or unity, but it's in Arabic and South Sudanese likely don't know the language, cause they're mainly english speakers and also their indigenous tong. --75.159.2.59 (talk) 03:58, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Article update?

Now that South Sudan has been accepted as an independent country as well as a UN member, isn't it about time that the article be updated to reflect the fact? It appears to end with South Sudan being one of a number of proposed names, but without showing that was indeed the adopted name or any developments since independence and UN membership. — Glenn L (talk) 05:43, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

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Requested move 1 October 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 16:43, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

---

2011 South Sudanese independence referendum → South Sudanese independence referendum – The inclusion of the year in the current title is unnecessary disambiguation because this was the only independence referendum in South Sudan’s history. There are no other referendums of this nature that require disambiguation by date. Other Wikipedia articles related to referendums generally avoid using years in the titles unless there is a need to distinguish between multiple similar events. So, the simpler title is more appropriate and aligns with Wikipedia’s naming policies, mostly WP:CONCISE. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 16:22, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject South Sudan, WikiProject Elections and Referendums, WikiProject Africa, and WikiProject Politics have been notified of this discussion. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 16:24, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Other Wikipedia articles related to referendums generally avoid using years in the titles this isn't really the case; WP:NCELECT suggests usually including the year. However I don't have an objection to this move in particular. Elli (talk | contribs) 16:29, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose as in contravention of WP:NCELECT, the naming convention for elections and referendums. As can be seen in Category:Independence referendums, all proper independence referendum articles have the year included. Number 57 19:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: per Number 57 FuzzyMagma (talk) 21:03, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.