Talk:Soviet famine of 1946–1947

Neutrality

Article reads more like an attack than a factual article. <>Multi-Xfer<> (talk) 21:35, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

The information in this article comes right from Ellman's scholarly article on the subject.--C.J. Griffin (talk) 21:42, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Undue weight is being given to one side. WP:NPOV must be adhered to. Are there other sources with which to balance the article? <>Multi-Xfer<> (talk) 00:13, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

It looks like most agree with Ellman (who is a respected scholar, not some rabid anti-communist hack). For example, he states in his article: "Nowadays, historians in Russia, Ukraine and Moldova, such as Popov, Zima, Veselova, and Tsaran and Shishkanu, blame the fact that there was a famine in 1947 on the policies of the Soviet government" (see pg 619). It doesn't look like the assertion, which is backed up by archival evidence and multiple scholars both inside and outside the former USSR, that Soviet policies mediated these famine deaths is all that controversial, even though for some reason you want it to be.--C.J. Griffin (talk) 01:17, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

User:91and71 The excessive reliance on one source and the use of numerous unfounded and unsourced claims (such as "this strongly suggests that the famine of 1946-47 was also a deliberate policy like the previous famine in 1932-33 which Khrushchev would have certainly known about since he had been part of leadership of the CP(b)U and of the Soviet Union. Stalin who was ultimately responsible for the famine of 1946-1947 was well-aware that excessive grain requisitions would cause a mass famine, similar to what he had deliberately done in 1932-33") which is unsourced, incorrect and biased on multiple levels —Preceding undated comment added 17:26, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

The section indeed needs a cleanup, also what you pointed out needs to be re-worded. It seems this time - unlike the 1930s terror famine - the famine was not deliberately planned, though wrong policies also contributed to it, cf [1].Miacek (talk) 21:16, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

This article is ridiculous and the people defending it are constantly outing themselves as political partisans who want to prove their own case. Puma6374 (talk) 17:16, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Russian historians reject such claims ????

Not Russian historians but a Ukrainian one is quoted.Xx236 (talk) 11:51, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Not only is what you said true, Russian historians would laugh you out of the room if you tried to cite the black book of communism in a scholarly debate Puma6374 (talk) 17:18, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Article fails objectivity test

This article is laughably unsourced and filled with supposition and accusations, mostly of a sectarian and ethnic nature. Even the official Wikipedia page for the holodomor is far less accusatory and partisan than this page, which is ironic because the holodomor has a much more solid case as a genocide than the postwar famine. Added to that, there is essentially no discussion of the devastation caused by war in Ukraine, or even the scorched earth policies carried out by Germans or soviets. This article is a low grade list of accusations that Ukrainians make against Russians and has no purpose on Wikipedia other than to inflame tensions. I will be checking back to see if any sources are added or if much of this article should simply be removed. Puma6374 (talk) 17:46, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

I think I fixed most of the issues you take a problem with, @Puma6374. I'd like some feedback though.

Ted52 (talk) 10:35, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Article rewrite

I have just completed a multi-day scram through much of the available historical literature to fix this mess of an article. I worked towards readability, chaptering, NPOV, Verifiability, Due Weight, and would like feedback on all of that. Also, I fixed the fact that approximately 70% of this article was about the 1932/33 famine rather than the 1946/47 one. Ted52 (talk) 10:35, 24 March 2021 (UTC)