Talk:Spaghetti and meatballs

Why does this direct to On Top of Spaghetti? I am changing this to a blank page, as I think "spaghetti and meatballs" deserve their own page, just like Macaroni and Cheese. 76.185.161.52 03:37, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

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Question about Il talismano

I read the article about Il talismano della felicità and it says the english version included some obbligatory American recipes for the American audience. I wonder whether the Italian version had a recipe for spaghetti and meatballs. If not, the Americanized version of the book can hardly be used to back up the claim of authenticity.72.78.15.183 (talk) 02:50, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

In brief

As summarized by The Atlantic, spaghetti with meatballs is an Americanized dish Where the original Italian/Campanian recipe have small amounts of meat as flavoring for the sauce, with meat eventually served later as second dish, the American version has substantially larger meatballs and is meant to be a single course

In other words, in the American version, pasta can be seen as a side for the meatballs, in the Italian recipes pasta is the core of the dish and meat is just an ingredient of the sauce

Since my edits are being blocked, I leave this here for anyone who want to implement it. Have a nice day!

For whatever reasons, what became Italian-American cuisine started with a base of Campanian food, minus many kinds of vegetables and cheeses and plus a lot of meat. Thus the rise of spaghetti and meatballs, a dish unknown in Italy. It probably had its origin in several baked Neapolitan pasta dishes, served at religious festivals such as Carnival and Christmas, that used meatballs no bigger than walnuts and also called for such ingredients as ham and boiled eggs. Thus, too, the rise of the lavish portions and the reliance on garlic, hot pepper flakes, and oregano, seasonings that seemed to become more and more prominent as the immigrants were assimilated into American culture. Levenstein and Conlin point out that Italian-Americans embraced enthusiastically the Americanized version of their food, and went on thinking of it as just like the food in the old country.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1986/07/pasta/306226/ http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/an-italian-dinners-courses.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.125.230.75 (talk) 02:05, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Yup, there's also "spaghetti bolognese" which is basically the equivalent of "spaghetti with meatballs" in most European countries (other than Italy, of course). "Spaghetti bolognese" actually somewhat resembles ragù alla napoletana and it usually contains minced beef, tomato sauce, onions, garlic, carrots, herbs and sometimes cream. It is served with spaghetti and parmesan/grana padano cheese. JJohannes (talk) 21:00, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Nonsense. — fortunavelut luna 07:26, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 31 July 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved (non-admin closure) ~SS49~ {talk} 03:27, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

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Spaghetti with meatballs → Spaghetti and meatballs – I have never heard anyone call it spaghetti WITH meatballs before. Only AND. 24.228.135.248 (talk) 02:13, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

• Support. In the English language, I'd agree “and” is more common, but “with” is not unheard of as you claim (see further below). Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 02:27, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose I'd have to see some non anecdotal proof. I've heard it called "spaghetti with meatballs" before, usually when it's on a menu or package - the "and" is typically used only in common speech._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 05:49, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. Knorr, Filippo Berio, Women's Weekly, The Independent, Irish Times, Hallmark Channel and Esquire all disagree. Dozens of other examples are just a Google search away. PC78 (talk) 09:09, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
  • @PC78: Anyone can be selective in the sources they choose to list. Spaghetti and meatballs from several highly reputable sources: Seattle Times, Yahoo Lifestyle, FOX, Spectator Life, Washington Post, Global News, New York Times, Sports Net, LA Times. Also, given this is an American dish, American reputable sources should be of higher regard, not merely selecting UK and Australian sources. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 12:48, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
    • @Vaselineeeeeeee: The nom was a mere anecdotal "I have never heard of..." statement so I provided some evidence to refute it. Hallmark Channel is, I believe, a US source, and it's not hard to find more; in fact, here's a few: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]. If you wish to make a case for "and" being more common than "with" then be my guest, but the current title is not incorrect or broken. PC78 (talk) 13:12, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
• Strongly support No need for anecdotal evidence: Google nGrams clearly shows that "and" has always been far more frequent than "with" in both US and UK English: proportions --Macrakis (talk) 13:40, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
• Support. It's the far more common name. Rreagan007 (talk) 15:15, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
• Support per usage evidence. bd2412 T 02:56, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
• Support per ngrams evidence of WP:COMMONNAME provided by Macrakis. Colin M (talk) 21:31, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
• Support, of course. Who would oppose this? --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 13:56, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

I just copied the title of this article and compared it to the "and" version in an Ngram. Guess which one comes out on top? --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 13:59, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

"With" doesn't even work with British English! --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 14:03, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

That's because ngrams is case sensitive. Try it lowercase. Ibadibam (talk) 20:53, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

italian or not?

the dishes mentioned as "italian equivalents," , maccheroni, rigatoni, are not, in fact spaghetti. they are different forms of pasta but not spaghetti. Therefore I remain unconvinced. 2001:982:7A85:1:E9BE:F63B:9F11:4A5C (talk) 14:57, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Come on, this is just arguing, not writing encyclopedic texts

80% of the article is about dishes that are not spaghetti and meatballs, which is really weird. I mean, most of the article is not encyclopedic, but just a desperate argument for the idea that spaghetti and meatballs is an Italian dish, even though nobody's ever seen it in a restaurant in Italy! Sorry guys, but why can't you be proud of the dish as an American specialty, instead of trying desperately to persuade the world it is Italian when it's clearly not? It's really an unusual lack of self-confidence to come from the Americans... ;-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎ 158.194.47.42 (talk) 15:36, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I like Americans, but what you wrote is absolutely right; trying to prove to the whole world that an Italian-American food is Italian isn't only wrong, but also shows insecurity in oneself. JacktheBrown (talk) 08:50, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

This is American food!

Why are some Americans so obsessed with arguing that spaghetti and meatballs is an Italian dish when it clearly isn't? Has anyone ever seen the dish in Italy? It is a classic Italian-American dish, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I have enjoyed it when in America. But this obsession with claiming that it is Italian just doesn't make sense. I have the feeling these people are ashamed of the dish and try to pass the blame... So, I suggest removing the examples of "similar dishes" in the text and instead writing more about the actual history of the dish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.194.47.42 (talk) 10:41, 18 September 2024 (UTC)