Talk:SDI (engine)

???

I can't figure out how to edit this article because the term I want to change is also a link. Will someone please change the last two words of the second paragraph from "turbo lag" to "a boost threshold"? There is a wikipedia paragraph on it at turbocharger#boost threshold (the same page as the current "turbo lag" link).

The sentence I want to change says "low engine speeds" which implies the concern of boost threshold, aka the minimum RPM at which a turbo becomes useful. The term "turbo lag" implies one is already past his boost threshold and suddenly goes to a wide-open-throttle condition. The "lag" is the time until boost appropriate for the RPM is achieved.

Article title is incorrect

The title of this article is incorrect - It should read Suction Diesel Direct Injection. The whole reasoning for the use of the SDI abbreviation by VW was to denote that the engine employed direct injection. The Suction Diesel Injection title implies that somehow the fuel (Diesel) is injected by suction which is nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.124.16.28 (talk) 10:22, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I think you are wrong - I am fairly certain Volkswagen Group definately called it Suction Diesel Injection in all their literature (both consumer literature and technical literature). It used to be in the glossary on their Volkswagen Passenger Cars website - but since they no longer install SDIs into VW cars; they have removed it. Also, don't forget that sometimes, when translating from German to English, they can sometimes have different meanings - RennSport (in English it directly translates to 'racing sport', but that generally means horse racing, not 'motor sport' which is the intended meaning) is a classic example, and another slightly diferent example is Teilekatalog (one word in German, but two words - 'parts catalogue' in English), regards. 78.32.143.113 (talk) 11:21, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

OK, now that someone has found a citation to support the original German: Saugdiesel Direkt Einspritzung - then maybe it would be better to change the article page title. However, trying to keep inline with other German to English language translations (such as Direct-Shift Gearbox - aka DSG), I would support the article being renamed to Suction-diesel Direct Injection - ie, hypenate 'Suction-diesel', and don't have two capital Ds - so it still follows the SDI acronym. 78.32.143.113 (talk) 13:44, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

see Suction-diesel Direct Injection. Wdl1961 (talk) 14:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Huh - why the redirect? Why not move the article to the proper capitalised name - just like Volkswagen Groups related engine technologies - Turbocharged Direct Injection, and their dual-clutch transmission Direct-Shift Gearbox, or others like eBay??? There is nothing in the WP:MOS which prevents capitals from being used for 'tradenames'! 78.32.143.113 (talk) 16:41, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

• I am happy with suction-diesel direct injection but I disagree with any capital letters. We do not capitalise naturally-aspirated or direct injection. I do not see this as different. Remember German capitalises all nouns. We do not bring that over to English. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 22:22, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

both translation and physical description of sdi is incorrect but -----.Wdl1961 (talk) 00:07, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

• OK, to specifically answer RHaworth comments:
• Firstly, yes, you are absolutely correct that we do NOT capitalise naturally-aspirated or direct injection - and the reason why is that they are generic terms - so I agree 100% with you on that.
• However, forgive me for saying this, but I think you've completely missed the point on tradenames. Please look at Turbocharged Direct Injection - it is capitalised because it is a registered tradename. But its related 'generic' articles such as turbodiesel, direct injection, turbocharger are not capitalised because they arn't trade names, and unless my English fails me, are all 'nouns'. Some other examples to support this established Wikipedia practice - Direct-Shift Gearbox (DSG) - again capitalised because it is a tradename, as is Twin Clutch SST (TC-SST) - again a tradename - and both are based on the 'generic' dual clutch transmission. So I'm struggling to see why you are reluctant. I've now found the relevent WP:MOS specifically for article titles - WP:TITLE, and specifically Standard English and trademarks - it cleary states: "Article titles follow standard English text formatting in the case of trademarks . . . Items in full or partial uppercase (such as Invader ZIM) should have standard capitalization (Invader Zim)". So I think those guidelines are clear enough. Also, Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks) again supports under its General rules "Capitalize trademarks, as with proper names." So I hope you can agree that the correct name for the article is Suction-diesel Direct Injection.
• Finally, I hope you also agree that there is clear concensus that the current article name of suction diesel injection, along with its previous Suction Diesel Injection are/were incorrect - to the point of being misleading. As stated in the actual article - the entire emphasis for the SDI acronym was that this engine range is a 'naturally aspirated diesel engine' - ie. Suction-diesel (from the German Saugdiesel), AND it utilises a 'direct injection' fuel system - ie. Direct Injection (from the German Direkt Einspritzung). Hope this answers all your concerns. Kind regards. 78.32.143.113 (talk) 14:44, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Given that the article title is (an English translation of) an expansion of a brand name abbreviation (and not a generic description), it seems reasonable, IMHO, to capitalise it. However, I am slightly wary of naming an article without a reference to support this particular translation from German. Letdorf (talk) 13:28, 23 February 2010 (UTC).

Thinking about it some more, would something like "SDI (engine)" actually be a better title, unless we can find an authoritative source for the English translation "Suction-diesel Direct Injection"? Letdorf (talk) 13:27, 25 February 2010 (UTC).

Power ratings

It's not clear to me what the phrase "DIN-rated" is meant to mean in this article - the article doesn't claim the engine power outputs are measured according to DIN 70020 as such, so I'm not sure what the relevance of DIN is here. In addition, ISO 8178-4 appears to be a standard for measuring exhaust emissions [1], not power output, so I don't see how it is comparable to Directive 80/1269/EEC. Also, what is the relevance of EWG to Directive 80/1269/EEC? Letdorf (talk) 14:38, 12 March 2010 (UTC).

I've now edited the article to try to clear up some of the confusion. Letdorf (talk) 13:07, 17 March 2010 (UTC).

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page moved to SDI (engine)  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 22:57, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

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Suction diesel injection → Suction-diesel Direct Injection — Relisted.--Aervanath (talk) 15:23, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

A closer translation of the German name Saugdiesel Direkt Einspritzung, and since this article is specifically about engines produced by Volkswagen Group under the "SDI" brand, there should be an uppercase "S", "D" and "I" in there somewhere Letdorf (talk) 13:21, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Comment this does not look like English 70.29.210.242 (talk) 03:30, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
• the suction is not relevant to injection.foggy.Wdl1961 (talk) 20:25, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
• Here, "suction" (German "Saug-") means "not turbocharged", i.e. the engine has to suck in atmospheric air unaided. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 10:19, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment in English that's "normally-aspirated" 76.66.192.73 (talk) 05:42, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
    • Comment True, but an article entitled "Normally-aspirated Diesel Direct Injection" would presumably be about non-turbo DI diesel engines in general, not specifically about SDI-branded VW Group engines, which is the subject of this article. I'm beginning to think SDI (engine) might have been a better choice for the renaming proposal after all... Letdorf (talk) 12:15, 1 April 2010 (UTC).
      • Comment SDI (engine) definitely works better. 76.66.192.73 (talk) 05:24, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
• Support move to SDI (engine) per above. If it's this hard to confirm what exactly SDI stands for, then presumably it's much better known by the acronym anyway. Propaniac (talk) 16:53, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.