Talk:Japanese pagoda

Requested move 27 August 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Japanese pagoda which everyone seems pretty happy with. Original proposed title created as a redirect. Jenks24 (talk) 14:53, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

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Tō → Buttou – In modern Japanese "tou" is the common word for tower, while "Buttou" (buddhist tower) more specifically refers to the kind of structures in this article. 124.39.78.114 (talk) 05:53, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Points in favor of the move:

1. The Japanese wikipedia article for 塔(tou) links to the English entry for "Tower", while the Japanese entry for 仏塔(buttou) covers topics very similar to this one.
2. In the same way this article says that sometimes the terms 仏塔(buttou) or 塔婆(touba) are used, the Japanese article titled 仏塔(buttou) lists as alternatives 卒塔婆(sotoba), 塔婆(touba), and 塔(tou).
3. As this article mentions 塔 in Japanese has been used to describe towers in general since the Meiji Restoration, so it's been the common word for "tower" for over one hundred years. As an example of usage having nothing to do with pagodas and the structures in this article, though Tokyo Tower is normally called 東京タワー (using the English word "tower"), its official name is "東京電波塔".
4. "Tou" does not seem to be the standard term in English, even this article consistently uses the word "pagoda".

I'm not sure what the motivation in originally naming the article this way way, and unfortunately it looks like the original author went inactive around 2013 so there's no way to find out.

Also, I have no opinion about using diacritics or not, I just have difficulty typing them on my machine.

• Oppose since the article covers all sorts of Tō, not just Buddhist Towers, leave where it is. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:50, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Can you give an example of a structure in the article that's not a buddhist tower or buttou? As far as I can tell they are all listed on the 仏塔/buttou article on Japanese Wikipeda. This article arleady says the structures are "sometimes also called buttō (仏塔 lit. Buddhist pagoda?)" without qualification as to some subset. --124.39.78.114 (talk) 10:28, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

• Comment—per the MoS, the spelling would have to be Buttō. It's true that tō refers to towers in general (as in バベルの塔 Baberu no tō, "Tower of Babel), and the Japanese Wikipedia does in fact have an article both for tō (towers in general, interlinks to Tower) and for buttō, an article that interlinks to Pagoda. Perhaps this article should actually be merged into Pagoda. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 11:36, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
• Comment: Expanding on Curly Turkey's comment above, may I offer a different suggestion? I think there is enough here for it to warrant a separate article, so I do not agree with a merge. The article on the Chinese equivalent is Chinese pagoda. I can't see why we need to use a Japanese word in the title here. So how about renaming it Japanese pagoda? I think we need to give consideration to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English).

I would also rearrange most of the lead into an etymology section, but that's a separate issue. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 02:06, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I think that moving it to "Japanese Pagoda" sounds like a great idea. --124.39.78.114 (talk) 03:51, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

• Rename to Japanese pagoda per aboves, and WP:UE ; we have an article on towers, and this is not it. The Japanese Wikipedia article on tou is for tower and not this topic. -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 06:08, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
• I agree, rename to "Japanese Pagoda". The Japanese WP doesn't have a single article that corresponds to this one. Instead it has ja:仏塔 for Asian pagodas in general and a number of separate articles for ja:五重塔 and ja:多宝塔 and other types of pagodas in Japan. Those could also be separate articles here, if anyone wants to expand those topics, but for now this is a good overview of pagodas in Japan. – Margin1522 (talk) 03:28, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.