Talk:Tactics Ogre

Untitled

vandolson, your edits have been really good. I think your additions to the language used in my Walstanian/Bacrum/Gargastan description were very nice. However, the only thing left we need to find are some of the game portraits for the character list.

Also, I've added some information to the "Plot and Setting" section. I think that it could use some revising, and hopefully we can get the game's introduction quoted here. What I said in the second paragraph is basically the prologue in a nutshell. --Big Tex 17:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I've currently been working on this wiki page. Let me know what you all think about the pics I've added, and some of the other minor edits. (vandolson@gmail.com)

It was requested that this article be renamed but the procedure outlined at WP:RM#How to request a page move did not appear to be followed, and consensus could not be determined. Please request a move again with proper procedure if there is still a desire for the page to be moved. Thank you for time! -- tariqabjotu (joturner) 03:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Queen reference!

Can we get anything... any reference that confirms that the game's title is a reference to a Queen song? --Havermayer 04:45, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Added on. Need help

I added to the game play section, and with that I added a rough class list. If anyone with more knowledge on the subject can help, the class list should probably be split into characters, creatures, and other types. And if anyone wants to really go crazy, a picture for each class would be nice.

Oh, I also found a great reference, but don't know how to add it. it's at http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/tactics_ogre_mech.txt BraveFoot 18:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if that "classes" section should be there. It just screams "cruft". A short paragraph about a few types of classes would be better than a long list. Thunderbrand 15:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. jaco♫plane 23:40, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, let's at least divide the "classes" section into playable and npc classes. I have no idea why characters should be included there, though. Psychophant 17:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I've copied the info to StrategyWiki and removed the tag at the top. There's perhaps a bit too much info about minor characters and the plot/setting, but it looks like the discusses classes section is gone. -- Prod (Talk) 21:20, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Name romanization

The current name romanization is incorrect. I'm not up to speed on how Japanese is supposed to be romanized in Wikipedia, but at any rate "Ōuga" can't be the correct romanization for 「オウガ」. It's either "Ōga" or "Ouga". Could somebody who knows more about this fix the romanization? Lumpio- 18:08, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Spoilers

I'm not sure how to do this, but I think there should be some spoiler warnings through this article. I haven't played the bulk of the game yet so I'm not sure if this is applicable but if so could someone fix this please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.146.41 (talk) 02:45, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Spoiler tags are against Wiki policy. (WP:SW) 98.113.81.173 (talk) 15:19, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Name Changes

Due to the PSP remake being released should we change there names to reflect this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.241.250.104 (talk) 16:59, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't think so but I think the article should note that the PSP remake featured such changes.Flygongengar (talk) 06:22, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Newly translated interview

http://shmuplations.com/tacticsogre/ TarkusAB^talk 22:38, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

As usual, shmuplations ends up being more frustrating than anything. He gives no indication which issue of Dengeki SFC it is, nor the page number. I would much prefer to just have the original interview than his translation. With the original text, we can also double check and debate over translation rather than just taking his word for it. GSLA archive is even more frustrating, since they don't even give any indication what the source is, and they severely edit the interviews. Harizotoh9 (talk) 02:08, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Cleanup + reviews

I did some major clean-up of the page. A lot of weird sourcing, such as fan sites and even user reviews. I've also added more reviews. Saturn and SNES reviews are lacking, so please add more if you find them. Everyone and their mother reviewed the PSP version, so we have enough. In fact, there's so many reviews, would it make sense to make a separate list for the PSP version? Harizotoh9 (talk) 13:27, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

GA Status?

Would anyone mind if I nominate this article for good article status? It looks really good, and I could guide it though the process! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:55, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Expansion

I've expanded the article as much as I could. I added all the reviews I could find from professional publications for the Saturn and SNES versions, and I sourced every review available from reputable publications described on the Template:Video game reviews. I also added an extra section for the awards. Most -- if not all -- of the relevant information about the game's reception and legacy should be covered by now. -- ThiagoSimoes (talk) 22:01, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Reviews

@ThiagoSimoes:, this is something I need help and input with. I noticed you put back some reviews that the original edit removed. I would like to incorporate those reviews into the text commentary, but I can't find any sources that say what the reviews stated about the game, so at the moment they're just scores without commentary or access to the sources. Also I can't find the issue of US PS Magazine that has the review of Tactics Ogre, and the link provided doesn't give the issue or date or anything besides the score. I did managed to find the proper sources for for the Turbo and Saturn merch. --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:51, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello, @ProtoDrake:. Thank you for the awesome work you've done on the article. It has much more information now and everything is very well written. I believe that most of the scores are necessary because this is an old game and we don't have access to the GameRankings page anymore. I wouldn't mind it very much if some scores are not sourced on the text, but if this bothers you or someone else, then we could discuss and probably try to reach consensus about removing these scores from the article. I can provide links for the magazines in Portuguese -- Gamers and SuperGamePower -- if you want. You can read the whole review in German from Next Level here: [1]. -- ThiagoSimoes (talk) 20:20, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

@ProtoDrake:I can try to lend you a hand with pinpointing links to issues containing said reviews of Tactics Ogre for each version. Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:22, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Here's what i could find: Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:54, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

• Super Famicom Review. Consoles + (in French). Vol. 52. March 1996 - I could not find any link to that Consoles Plus issue. Needs to be removed.
• Test PlayStation. Consoles + (in French). Vol. 78. July 1998. p. 134 - https://archive.org/details/Console_Plus_Numero_078/page/n133/mode/2up
• Spieletest: Tactics Ogre. Mega Fun (in German). July 1998. p. 88. (#70) - https://retrocdn.net/index.php?title=File%3AMegaFun_DE_1998-07.pdf&page=88
• Official Playstation Magazine review- I could not find any link to that OPM issue, nor the exact issue number. Needs to be removed.
• Tactics Ogre. SuperGamePower (in Portuguese). Vol. 29. August 1996. p. 36. - https://archive.org/details/SuperGamePower_Ano_03_No._029_1996-08_Nova_Cultural_BR_pt/page/n35/mode/2up
• Flash Game. Gamers (in Portuguese). Vol. 19. 1997. p. 47. - I could not find any link to that Gamers issue. Needs to be removed.
• 32-Bit-Rollenspiele. Next Level (in German). Vol. 5/1997. May 1997. pp. 14, 17. (#13) - https://retrocdn.net/index.php?title=File%3ANextLevel_DE_1997-05.pdf&page=14
• Tactics Ogre. Super Game (in French). Vol. 38. December 1995. p. 102. - https://www.abandonware-magazines.org/affiche_mag.php?mag=20&num=3372&album=oui

@KGRAMR:, all hugely useful, though I can't easily translate these links. I can just about manage a rough idea of Japanese text, but other languages can be beyond me. As to the PS Mag issue, it's Vol 1 Issue #12, from September 1998. It's got Parasite Eve as its cover art. I think, with this number of reviews for each version, a table covering each version in different columns would work here. --ProtoDrake (talk) 17:38, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Alexandra IDV (talk · contribs) 19:25, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

I'll take this one!--Alexandra^IDV 19:25, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Infobox

• Azeyagi is only mentioned in the infobox, without a source
  • Removed
• Optional (but good for accessibility): the cover image lacks alt text
• The footnote Super Famicom only. is not a complete sentence (which is fine), and should therefore not have a period at the end
  • Done.

Lead

• Production of Tactics Ogre, which lasted two and a half years, - it's understood from context which game's production is discussed, so it's not necessary to mention. Would go for "Production lasted two and a half years, and"
  • I've done some tidying and condensing.
• The gameplay [...] used a chess-inspired combat system - it uses, because the game still exists.
  • Done.
• The visuals were created by art director Hiroshi Minagawa and character designer Akihiko Yoshida. - it's one thing to say that Minagawa and Yoshida were art director and character designer, respectively, but "the visuals were created by [the art team leads]" is obvious and unnecessary.
  • Rewritten.

Gameplay

• The player controls Denim and his expanding army - it is already mentioned that Denim is the player character in the previous sentence.
• the player is asked the input Denim's name, birthday, and answer a series of questions determining their alignment and statistics. - "is asked to". I also think things should be reworded here as the text as written says the player is asked to type the name "Denim", rather than given the option to rename the protagonist.
• Prior to battle "battles"
• where players controls both sides "control"
• This mode also allowed for local two-person multiplayer in the Super Famicom release. - "also" can be struck, and I wonder if "local" really is necessary, too. Was online multiplayer even a thing on the SFC?
• The player team has a maximum of ten on the field, - a maximum of ten "characters" or "units" I presume?
• how many and what type of action is taken - given you write "how many", "type of action" also needs to be in plural.
• a tarot card item - unclear what the word "item" adds here
• A stage is concluded when the victory condition is met, - unless you go into specifics with an example or two, this feels too obvious to be said.
• performing a spell if they are capable of magic once their magic has changed enough during battle - Is this meant to say "charged"?
• A key element to progress is its branching story paths, - the last thing discussed was not the game or the plot, so "its" can't be used to refer back to that
  • Addressed all the grammar and spelling points above, plus some rewriting.

Synopsis

• and currently ruled by - "currently" can be removed. "It is currently ruled by..." and "It is ruled by..." both indicate it is happening in the present.
  • Done.
• its regent Bishop Branta Mown - is Branta Mown's title "Regent Bishop"? If so, "regent" should be capitalized. If not, "regent" is superfluous because we are already saying that this character is ruling the faction.
  • It's not, and I added a comma to clear it up.
• the young Demin Powell - His name is misspelled. I also don't know whether to interpret this as him being a teenager, in his twenties, or what. Would recommend changing to "young man", "teenager", or whatever word is the most appropriate.
  • I just cut this.
• Vice will disagree and oppose him - should be in present tense
  • Done.
• Kachua is in fact Dolgare's illegitimate daughter - "in fact" is unnecessary
  • Done.
• she will commit suicide should also be in present tense. Also wow, this game sure gets dark at points.
  • Done. And yes, most modern stuff outside the Witcher is tame compared to this.
• What is a chaos gate?
  • I just cut the references to it.
• either Kachua will be crowned queen [...], or Denim will be crowned king - should be in present tense
  • Done.
• or executed by Bacrum-Valeria to protect Branta Mown - "or getting executed"
  • Done.

Development

• The staff was fifteen or sixteen people. is a very short sentence that kinda halts the flow of the reading experience. I would combine it with the "Production, including later delays, lasted two and a half years." sentence.
  • Done.
• While Ogre Battle was a broad tale - should be in present tense, the game still exists.
  • Done.

Release

• The reason for the delay was due to Matsuno wanting further polish in the character animations. - I don't think you need both "The reason for" and "due to".
  • Done.
• "Gamers" rather than "players" comes across as too casual for an encyclopedia, to me.
  • Done.
• You have two paragraphs in a row starting with "It was ported to"
  • Sorted.
• I would link Patch (computing), since the meaning of this is not necessarily obvious to the average reader.
  • Done.

Reception

• The original game has sold over 500,000 copies in Japan. - I assume you mean the original SFC version of the game.
• Bryan Boulette of RPGamer gave unanious praise to the narrative, - can a single person be "unanimous" about something? This does not seem right.
• sentuments should be "sentiments"
• In March 2006, the Japanese Famitsu magazine - Famitsu has already been introduced as a Japanese magazine
• IGN is a creative work and should be written in italics
• Specify that the Heisei era is 1989-2019, this isn't obvious to non-Japanese readers
• USgamer is spelled with a lowercase "g"
  • Fixed all that, and several other spelling mistakes I'd completely failed to miss. Picture of young man cradling his face and groaning.

Legacy

• Tactics proved a success, - both Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Ogre include this word in their titles, so this does not seem like an ideal way to shorten the title here.
  • Specified it's FF tactics.
• a leader scenario writer - "a lead scenario writer"
  • Done.
• it received expanded narrative - "an expanded narrative"
  • Done.

Images

• There are freely usable images of Hiroshi Minagawa Hitoshi Sakimoto in their respective articles that you could use to illustrate the development section, which currently is a quite long stretch of text without any images to break things up
  • Added. They were being used in the article for its remake.

References

• Ref formatting is not part of GAN, but I will still mention it: company names that are not also the name of a creative work or publication should not be italicized. This includes the references to Riverhillsoft, Quest Corporation, Nintendo, Sega, PlayStation, Artdink, Atlus, Square
  • Regarding the instruction manual: Atlus USA is not an author or editor, they are a publisher.
  • "Shumplations" should be written "Shmuplations". Additionally, they are not the original place these were published - use the via parameter for "Shmuplations", and add Dengeki SFC and Famitsu, respectively, as the website
  • DenFamicoGamer.jp should be DenFamiNicoGamer.jp
  • The YouTube refs should use "via=YouTube", because YouTube is not the publisher here, just the host and video player.
    • Same with Twitter.

Apologies for leaving you such a long list, but most of these are rather minor grammar/spelling mistakes, so hopefully it won't take too much effort or time. I will put this on hold - ping me when you have addressed the above, or if you have any questions!--Alexandra^IDV 20:12, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

@Alexandra IDV: Did my best to sort out everything you mentioned, and some more bits I spotted. --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:08, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

@ProtoDrake: Thank you, and good job on spotting a few further things I had missed! I did a few final tweaks, and: picture of young woman ready to promote article to GA status--Alexandra^IDV 01:14, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Undiscussed move

@UnkreativeFrog: You moved the article citing "Add parentheses/disambiguator: full title and disambiguatior". But there's no need for a disambiguator; Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together already redirects here, and per WP:CONSISTENT, there's no need to add an extra disambiguator simply because the PSP remake version has one. I would consider moving it back directly, but I suppose there might be a case for leaving it as is if we thought that the 2022 Tactics Ogre Reborn might get its own page some day, in which case maybe a very small disambiguation page at Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together pointing to the three separate articles might be appropriate. But unless there's a plan to make such a third article, I'd definitely be a fan of moving this back, whether to Tactics Ogre or to Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (no strong opinion on if the subtitle should be included).

Also pinging @ProtoDrake:, who I know worked on the PSP remix article, in case you have any opinions here. SnowFire (talk) 06:42, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

(also also pinging @Dissident93:, who I see moved the article as well in the past.) SnowFire (talk) 06:44, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

I personally don't see the need for the disambiguator, as it's pretty obvious it's from 1995 by the article content. The remake needed it as they share an identical title, but the original not so much. I didn't feel strongly enough at the time to start a potential edit conflict, but that's my opinion. Not the first time the article's just been moved without much discussion, as it was earlier changed to just "Tactics Ogre" then later switched to this one. --ProtoDrake (talk) 08:43, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

The article should really be "Tactics Ogre" per WP:SUBTITLES and WP:CONCISE. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 14:19, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 21 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Tactics Ogre. Per consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 16:12, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

---

Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (1995 video game) → Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together – This article has moved around and probably just needs a community discussion. It started at simply Tactics Ogre in 2005, moved to Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together in 2006, was moved back to Tactics Ogre in 2022, and was moved to Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (1995 video game) in 2023, all undiscussed. Both of the old titles currently redirect here. We have four options:

• Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together. Full title; my suggested option, and the title of the article for the longest amount of time. Consistent with Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen which also has the subtitle.
• Tactics Ogre. Skip subtitle, use short form of the name.
• Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (1995 video game) and create a new disambiguation page at Tactics Ogre that distinguishes between the 1995, 2010, and 2022 versions of the game (for all that the 2022 version doesn't currently have a separate article, but I'm sure a short one could be created if there was desire to do so).
• Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (1995 video game) and let Tactics Ogre continue to redirect to it, the status quo. (Which seems wrong to have a redirect to a title with a disambiguator.)

They all can work but we should just pick one, by consulting a tarot deck if necessary. And hopefully not drawing The Fool. SnowFire (talk) 04:15, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

• Courtesy ping of @ProtoDrake, Dissident93, and UnkreativeFrog:. (Also in the realm of Explaining The Joke for any passerby. Tarot cards are a whole mechanic / theme in the game.) SnowFire (talk) 04:42, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
• Rename This one back to Tactics Ogre as WP:COMMONNAME. Keep the remake where it is, seems good. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:49, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
• Tactics Ogre per WP:COMMONNAME; further strengthen by WP:SUBTITLES and WP:CONCISE. The case of Ogre Battle is different since that is a series article. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 17:10, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.