Talk:The Bitchelor

AfD result

@Barkeep49: You just kept the article despite the votes to drafty and the fact that the current article is entirely unsourced? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 02:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Another Believer, sources were provided in the AfD. Those could be incorporated and this article would no longer be entirely unsourced. If we go the draftify route six months from now it would stand a good chance of being deleted which didn't quite seem in the spirit of the draftify participation - including yours. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:15, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Barkeep49, Hmm. I don't know if I've ever seen an AfD closed as kept when there are more votes to draftify and/or delete. Nor have I seen an article kept while being entirely unsourced. Seems strange to me, and I feel like moving into draft space at least puts the onus on someone (ideally the page creator) to commit to at least trying to expand the entry. Doesn't really seem like the community voted to keep this page, but I guess I won't fight your ruling. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 03:27, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

@Lil-unique1, Isaacwshearer, Devokewater, Kbabej, and Gleeanon409: I feel obligated to make you aware of the above discussion because of your participation in the AfD discussion. Sorry if the ping is a bother. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 03:33, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I think Barkeep49 has it right. Draftifying is death row with the vast majority of articles never making it to article space, and de facto deleted. It’s counter to keeping in any form.

The source issue feels like a red herring with RPDR articles, of course sources exist. The only issue is if editors are patient enough to allow regular editing to take place. Gleeanon409 (talk) 03:41, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Gleeanon409, Draftifying doesn't have to be death row if literally anyone works on the page enough to clearly demonstrate notability. I don't understand why we're giving this article an extended lifetime in main space when 1 community member voted to keep. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 03:44, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Is there any useful stats to point out the percentage of draftifyied articles that go live again vs deleted? Gleeanon409 (talk) 03:51, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

This article should not have been kept - it should have been draftified with a view to reviewing a more complete and up to date version. @Barkeep49: this is a poor decision. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 08:32, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I've opened a formal deletion review request at Wikipedia:Deletion_review#The_B*tchelor. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 15:07, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I've relisted the discussion. I respect the feedback here and just hadn't gotten around to it this morning. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:18, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Lil-unique1, Seems Barkeep49 has re-opened the AfD discussion. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:18, 29 July 2020 (UTC) Sorry, Barkeep49 and I posted these comments at the same time. I'm not sure what happens with the review discussion now. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:20, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Reliable sources?

Are Popdust and IntoMore.com appropriate for Wikipedia? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 13:21, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done, Gleeanon409 (talk) 13:16, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Why the "*"?

Why are we using the "*" to censor "Bitchelor" in the article's title? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:28, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

It seems that a handful of sources use the asterisk in their reporting, but not all do. I can't remember how this was stylized on the actual episode. I would say we should go with the way the title appeared on TV. Armadillopteryx 16:31, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Ah, now I see ... there was an eggplant in place of the "i" on the show. I might be inclined to keep the asterisk for accuracy rather than censorship. Armadillopteryx 16:33, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Armadillopteryx, I lean the opposite direction. Sources like IMDb, IMO, suggest we should avoid the censored version of the title. Also, the screenshot you've referenced is the title card for the fictional series/challenge, but was this the actual title of the episode? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:03, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Another Believer: The lead sentence of our article here says, "The B*tchelor", stylized with the "i" as an eggplant emoji, is the third episode of the third season of the American drag queen-focused reality competition television series RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars ..., so it seems that was the title of the episode. I wouldn't necessarily lean on IMDb since it isn't an RS, but maybe we could just do a sweep of all our sourcing and go with the majority? At a glance, of the five sources that list the episode name in the headline, three use the asterisk and two don't. I don't really feel strongly about this btw, just sharing my thoughts, so if you have a preference, you can just do that. Armadillopteryx 18:13, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Armadillopteryx, I wouldn't assume the current intro wording is correct. No offense to User:Gleeanon409 but it's possible they assumed the title based on the graphic and not sourcing. Would be curious for them to weigh in here as well. If sourcing is split, I'd prefer we use the uncensored version. A formal move request may be needed here. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:17, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Another Believer, I clicked on the two inline citations after the lead sentence, and it's one of each (one that censors and one that doesn't). Armadillopteryx 18:19, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Armadillopteryx, OK, I'm submitting a move request momentarily. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:20, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm trying to find the VH1 link, but this VH1 via Facebook link is not censored: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1162171407247041 ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:10, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, but the video includes the same graphic I posted above with the eggplant. I'll try and see if I can find something about it from WOW, maybe? Armadillopteryx 18:14, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Armadillopteryx, I see. My concern is we're using the graphic title card created for the challenge but not using the television episode's actual title... ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:15, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Another Believer, Here's an article published by WOW that does not censor the title. Armadillopteryx 18:17, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

I’m not bothered either way, I inherited the censored version, and think there needs to be a good reason to censor. @Another Believer: if you’re willing I’d love to have the eggplant title card added to the article. Gleeanon409 (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Gleeanon409, I've learned how to add album covers under fair use, but not screenshots from TV episodes or title cards. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:51, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

And, User:Gleeanon409, for the record I did not mean to accuse you of any wrongdoing, I just pinged you knowing you were more familiar with sourcing. I know someone else started the page. Thanks for weighing in here and below. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:52, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 21 August 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus to move page. (non-admin closure) — YoungForever^(talk) 18:56, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

---

The B*tchelor → The Bitchelor – "The B*tchelor" is a censored version of "The Bitchelor". Sources use both. There are sources which use "The B*tchelor", but this is possibly because they prefer to use the censored version, or possibly because the graphic title card for the episode's challenge uses an eggplant emoji instead of the letter "i". However, I'm not seeing evidence "The B*tchelor" is the official title of the actual television episode. Additionally, Wikipedia is not censored, therefore I propose moving to "The Bitchelor". --Another Believer _(Talk) 18:23, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Support move. Looking into it, it does seem like the episode title wasn't censored by production. This article from TV Guide and this one from the show's production company, World of Wonder, both do not censor the episode title. Armadillopteryx 18:28, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

• Support move. Gleeanon409 (talk) 20:50, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
• Support. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:48, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nominator's rationale. Aoba47 (talk) 03:20, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.