Talk:The Discovery of Morniel Mathaway

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by BlueMoonset (talk) 20:34, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that William Tenn's science fiction short story "The Discovery of Morniel Mathaway", has been used to illustrate Jacques Lacan's concept of the sinthome? Source: Žižek, page 58, and many (many) books that refer to Žižek
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: No idea whether this is too many links or too few

Created by Maury Markowitz (talk). Self-nominated at 17:20, 2 March 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/The Discovery of Morniel Mathaway; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• I will review this. TompaDompa (talk) 15:16, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - See below.
• Neutral: - See below.
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting: - No.

QPQ: - Not done.
Overall: Article created on 2 March, and meets the length requirement. Earwig reveals no copyvio and I didn't spot any instances of unacceptably WP:Close paraphrasing. QPQ has not been done. I don't think the hook is interesting, since I think most readers will simply go "I don't understand what that means" and move on. Some comments on the content:

• Plot summaries don't really need references (the work itself is presumed to be the source), but including them is not a problem, either.
• ISFDB is not a WP:Reliable source.
• The same script was used for productions on Future Tense in July 1976. – unsourced.
• Žižek's "masterpiece" work – this is the first mention of Slavoj Žižek in the article, so the full name should be included and linked.
• Žižek's "masterpiece" work – I don't see a good reason to include "masterpiece" here. Seems like unnecessary WP:PUFFERY.
• This analysis is widely used in similar works. – unsourced.

Ping Maury Markowitz. TompaDompa (talk) 16:05, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

@TompaDompa: The template makes it practically impossible to read in source form, so forgive me if I miss anything:

• The opinion on this changes daily. Not going to do anything here.
• For a list of books it was published in? Really? Whatever, open to suggestions.
• Link added.
• "masterpiece" is used, in this form, in the article on the book. I'm in favour of leaving it in.
• Removed.

Maury Markowitz (talk) 18:54, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

"Masterpiece" might be reasonable in the article on the book itself, but I don't see a good reason to include it here. On a similar note, an issue best known for its cover article by Willy Ley describing the Disneyland production of Man in Space which featured the famous reusable winged spaceship designed by Wernher von Braun for the show is WP:OFFTOPIC. TompaDompa (talk) 14:07, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

I came across this nom by accident, literally a wrong click. The sourcing and other issues above have been addressed (TMK). As to the hook:

• ALT1 ... that William Tenn's time travel story "The Discovery of Morniel Mathaway" has been used to illustrate the concept of psychoanalytic symptoms?Source: Žižek, page 58, and many (many) books that refer to Žižek

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Brennley Brown Maury Markowitz (talk) 00:16, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Alright, let's take another look:

• QPQ has now been done.
• ISFDB is not a reliable source.
• an issue best known for its cover article by Willy Ley describing the Disneyland production of Man in Space which featured the famous reusable winged spaceship designed by Wernher von Braun for the show – WP:OFFTOPIC and unsourced.
• This interpretation has itself become a widely used argument that has led to the story being discussed in a number of general philosophical works. – that seems like WP:ANALYSIS to me. Bell discusses the work in the context of causal loops. Preservation, Radicalism, and the Avant-Garde Canon discusses Žižek's analysis of the story and sinthome. The Woman Who Pretended to Be Who She Was: Myths of Self-Imitation discusses Žižek's analysis of the story in the context of self-imitation in art.
• I can't say I think ALT1 is particularly interesting. This might need a second opinion.

Ping Maury Markowitz. TompaDompa (talk) 05:51, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Withdraw nom. Maury Markowitz (talk) 12:46, 24 April 2023 (UTC)