Talk:Sun Conference

Requested move 16 March 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved per clear consensus. "could have been speedied" is also likely true. (non-admin closure) Dicklyon (talk) 04:45, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

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The Sun Conference → Sun Conference – Per WP:THE and WP:COMMONNAME... the same reason that Summit League, which was moved back in February 2016 . IMO, it would be the same as WP:THE #2 about the US, and it would also be the same for universities. Just because the Conference wants to brand with "The", doesn't mean Wikipedia needs to follow them. 🍀 Corkythehornetfan 🍀 02:51, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

• Weak support per nom. Maybe we should ask someone from The Ohio State University to weigh in. Lizard (talk) 04:30, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose., per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (definite or indefinite article at beginning of name), under the bold heading "Names of groups, sports teams and companies", states "When a proper name is almost always used with "The", especially if it is included by unofficial sources, the article "The" should be used in the name of the corresponding Wikipedia page as well. For instance, this is true for the names of some musical groups:"... Just as "The Hershey Company" is appropriate for a corporation with "The" in the name, "The Sun Conference" is appropriate for a company (in this case a conference as well) whose legal name contains "The". To oppose using the organization's legal and customarily used name is like moving the rock group "The Who" to "Who", or that the article for "Mortal Kombat" should be moved to "Mortal Combat" because Combat is spelled with a C and we just don't like it with a K. Jacona (talk) 13:20, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support. WP:THE#Names of groups, sports teams and companies states "When a proper name is almost always used with 'The'" (emphasis added). These news sources do not capitalize "The" in all instances (and thus do not treat it as part of the proper name):[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]. I can find more such examples doing a Google News search of "the sun conference" And even the official athletic web site from one of the members of the conference, University of South Carolina Beaufort, did not capitalize it in running text.[11]. Neither did Keiser University.[12] Nor Ave Maria University.[13] Furthermore, WP:CONSISTENCY: it looks like all the other similar articles on the various college sports conferences in the US do not include "the" in the title. Zzyzx11 (talk) 07:16, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I believe the above comments misinterpret the above discussion of "The" - the argument is advocating the use of "The" when the organization's name includes the word, such as in "The Who" or "The Hershey Company". "The Sun Conference" is the legal name (see [14]), whether or not we like it. If a few sources occasionally get it wrong, we don't need to compound the error by getting it wrong as well.

As to other "similar" articles, I can't find one that uses the "T" in their abbreviations, for instance the Appalachian Athletic Conference is abbreviated AAC, Mid-South Conference as MSC, etc. The Sun Conference is always abbreviated "TSC". Do we also need to change the initials commonly used in the articles, and frequently by the conference, from TSC to SC? I've never seen that in print! Jacona (talk) 12:34, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Proposed experiment: google "TSC basketball", see what you get. Then google "SC basketball" and compare. Jacona (talk) 12:36, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

You'd get South Carolina for the latter, naturally. Lizard (talk) 18:05, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I know right? And if you google "Sun Conference" without the "The", you get more "Atlantic Sun Conference" hits than "The Sun Conference" hits. It's just not TSC without the "T". Jacona (talk) 18:11, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, I was going to list articles that do not use "The", but Zzyzx11 beat me to it! If you use news.google.com and search "sun conference", it comes up with this conference for a majority of the searches. If you add NAIA at the end after Sun Conference (on regular google), it comes up with Sun Conference. If someone just does a regular search of "sun conference", this conference is the first to show up under the box for Atlantic Sun... with the wikipedia article right below it! I'm just not convinced that we should keep "The" in the name. 🍀 Corkythehornetfan 🍀 18:26, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, it certainly seems wrong to me, but I appreciate your discussion. Don't let me hold you up, and thanks for all of your hard work! Jacona (talk) 23:26, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I understand why you oppose. This is why I requested the move and didn't do a bold move, so others could voice their opinions! 🍀 Corkythehornetfan 🍀 01:17, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

As always, you're one of the best! Jacona (talk) 01:33, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support. This could have been speedied per WP:THE and MOS:TM. This is not 'a proper name ... almost always used with "The"', not even close: "Sun Conference" -Atlantic. This is pure special pleading for trademark brandname stylization to be "magically different". Well, no. This is a totally routine rename; the only things we do not remove "The" from are the titles of works/compositions (The Lord of the Rings), and unusual cases that pretty much universally retain "The" as a formal part of their proper names according to nearly all reliable sources not just their own marketing departments (thus The Hague but not The Crimea). Legal name is irrelevant in a case like this, per WP:OFFICIALNAME.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  22:49, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.