Talk:Thyia (daughter of Deucalion)

Requested move 1 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 17:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

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Thyia of Thessaly → Thyia (daughter of Deucalion) – No sources call her "Thyia of Thessaly". Best to use the disambiguator "daughter of Deucalion", per sources such as Gantz's Early Greek Myth, p. 909, and Hard's Routledge Handbook of Greek Mythology, p. 741. Michael Aurel (talk) 14:35, 28 October 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). – robertsky (talk) 12:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

This is just standard naming for princesses and suchlike - <Name> of <Location>. I don't see a strong need to change it and the current tittle is WP:NATURALDIS.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:23, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any source calling her a princess, so I don't know why we would use standard naming for royalty. Her only real significance is genealogical. In addition, as I said, I don't think there is any source which calls her "Thyia of Thessaly", so I don't see how WP:NATDIS applies, since the phrase is not what she is commonly called in English reliable sources. – Michael Aurel (talk) 17:05, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Maybe what I meant when I said [h]er only real significance is genealogical will be made clearer if I specify that this figure is only mentioned in two ancient texts: Hesiod's Catalogue of Women, [1] which only says that she is the daughter of Deucalion and the mother, by Zeus, of Macedon and Magnes, and Stephanus of Byzantium's Ethnica, [2] which pretty much says the exact same thing, almost word for word. Secondary sources don't say anything more than this (there isn't anything more to say). – Michael Aurel (talk) 03:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Apparently my request from WP:RMTR has been copied here. As I said there, no sources call her "Thyia of Thessaly", nor does the Hesiodic fragment which mentions her [3] even contain the word "Thessaly". I don't know where the idea of her being a princess comes from (I do know that Pausanias calls Deucalion the king of Ozolian Locris, but trying to make some inference about Thyia being a princess on that basis goes entirely against WP:SYNTH). Her only real significance is genealogical, and all secondary sources say about her is that she is the daughter of Deucalion, and the mother by Zeus of Magnes and Macedon (there is nothing more to say); furthermore, Gantz and Hard use the disambiguator "daughter of Deucalion" in their indexes. – Michael Aurel (talk) 23:38, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Support per nom. Amakuru raises WP:NATURALDIS as a reason to keep the current title, but NATURALDIS refers to an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources; I can find no evidence that "Thyia of Thessaly" has ever been used in an English reliable source, let alone that the subject is "commonly" called it. NATURALDIS also explicitly says do not use obscure or made-up names. Judging by my Google searches, Wikipedia might have invented this name: "thyia of thessaly" -wikipedia brings up only four results for me, all of which are pulling the name from Wikipedia, while google scholar has no results for "thyia of thessaly". Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 11:11, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Support as it seems to be the more logical and probably more common way of referring to her. The present title makes her sound like medieval nobility, and while I do not consider it to be objectionable as a "made-up" name, as any logical title should be usable, the proposed title seems both clearer and more likely as a search target. It is certainly no worse than the present title, and between the two it is the better choice IMO. P Aculeius (talk) 12:53, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.