Talk:Tiffany Butcher

Shouldn't Tiffany Dean be Tiffany Butcher?

I always thought that the father's surname is given to any children. Ricky Butcher is the father, therefore shouldn't it be Tiffany Butcher? The Ultimate Koopa (talk) 23:59, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Given that paternity has only just been established, I doubt the characters will be hurrying off to change her name by deed poll asap. Frickative 00:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Eventually, I would imagine that they probably will change her name for the storyline, but children's surnames are not determined by genetics, so until it is stated, she is Dean and not Butcher. Sky83 (talk) 09:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

This has obviously come up again tonight. Just because Tiffany said "am I called Butcher now?" and Bianca said "yes" doesn't mean her name is Tiffany Butcher. Her parents' marriage didn't automatically mean her name somehow got magically changed. Only the bride's name changes upon marriage, not the children. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 21:36, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Seeing as Bianca said herself Tiffanys last name is now Butcher Im pretty sure Bianca went about changing it.It may not happen in real life but when has Eastenders ever been realastic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Littlebecky (talk • contribs) 21:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to swear but fucking hell, they only just got married! If they decide to legally change Tiffany's name, then it's not going to be immediately after the wedding. Wait and see what happens in upcoming episodes or credits. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 21:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Maybe they changed it before the wedding also a womans name doesnt autamaticly change when she gets married theres steps to be taken.I think the whole "Is my name now Butcher" thing was a hint from the writers that her names now been changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Littlebecky (talk • contribs) 22:12, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's just speculation. I don't think Bianca was going to upset her daughter by saying no, do you? It'll probably be changed, but off-screen, and certainly not before the wedding as not every wedding ends in marriage, especially in soapland. Again, wait and see. Even if it is changed, page moves should be discussed with WP:EASTENDERS because there are Wikipedia policies to adhere to. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:20, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Well I tweeted the offical bbceastenders and asked them because I doubt it will be mentioned again on the show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Littlebecky (talk • contribs) 22:28, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

If her name changes, the credits on the BBC website will reflect it. That's how we knew Amira became Amira Masood and not Amira Syed as expected. Tweets can't be used as sources, so tweeting them is no good. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:33, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Also, you asked "so Is Tiffany offically a Butcher now?". They could think you just mean a part of the Butcher family, which she is. A positive reply doesn't mean a name change. But I wouldn't expect any reply. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:34, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Does this need further discussion?

Because someone is changing it using the credits as a source, however we know they make mistakes in the credits, such as "Amira Masood", "Ali Ahmed" and "Fat Boy". Secondly, there is no evidence from storylines that they have changed her name legally. (I'm probably up to 3RR so can't revert again) AnemoneProjectors 19:50, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

There is no need for discussion at all and I don't know why you are even bothering. There is an official BBC source which lists it as Butcher. Just because the credits have been wrong in the past, you shouldn't assume that they are wrong again, (and by the way, Amira's surname was Masood). You're really clutching at straws to keep it how you want it. Give it up, it's pathetic. -Trampikey^{(talk)(contribs)} 10:52, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, to quote you above "If her name changes, the credits on the BBC website will reflect it." - the source I have provided IS the show's credits. There is no better or more official source that I can think of that can be used, yet it still isn't good enough for you. Your judgement is obviously clouded by your own personal preference. -Trampikey^{(talk)(contribs)} 11:02, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Discuss FIRST, don't just change it because you think you're right. I said that about the credits but we have since learnt that the credits make several mistakes, such as the three examples I already gave. There has been no mention in the show that Tiffany has had her name changed legally. You yourself always said we should go with the show rather than the website because they make mistakes. And way to vandalise Wikipedia. Why do you just retire? You clearly hate it here. AnemoneProjectors 11:47, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't care what you say, think or presume. The show's credits on the show's official website is a good enough source to include in the article. You yourself even said twice on this very talk page to wait until the credits reflect the name change, which they now do. Give it up. I'm not going to bother trying to change the article name because you have some stupid Wikipedia rule which backs you up on that one, which I can kind of understand due to people searching for the most common name, but the content of articles (including list of EastEnders characters should be 100% accurate. This is why I don't edit Wikipedia anymore, but this issue pisses me off so much that I will continue editing until the correct names are given in the articles. -Trampikey^{(talk)(contribs)} 11:51, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

So stop editing Wikipedia, stop looking at Wikipedia and stop worrying about Wikipedia content. Leave it up to the dedicated Wikipedians and go back to that other site where you can have total control. Since your totally immature page move, I don't see why I should take anything you ever say into account again. It's childish and you're throwing a tantrum because someone disagrees with you. AnemoneProjectors 12:21, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Not at all, I just don't think you should have total control over the EE articles when you're wrong. I'm sorry but there is no way you can argue with official BBC sources that I have added to the articles to say that these are the characters' names, so your current tactic is reverting and telling me to discuss things (i.e. get your permission) before adding them to articles, which I fail to see why I should do so when the sources I have provided are reliable. -Trampikey^{(talk)(contribs)} 12:25, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

STOP REVERTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait for more people to comment. I don't have total control, I am waiting for more people to comment before we reach conensus to make changes. We can argue with official BBC sources because a) you have done in the past and b) we know the credits make mistakes. So JUST WAIT AND STOP EDITING OR I WILL FULLY PROTECT BOTH PAGES. AnemoneProjectors 12:33, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

This isn't about your personal preference or what I've said or done in the past, so please try and leave both out of it. I'm dumbfounded that you're persistently arguing with good faith, well referenced and accurate edits that use an official BBC source. Do you need to get consensus every time something is changed nowadays? Why are you making it so difficult? -Trampikey^{(talk)(contribs)} 12:36, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

(undent) Just wait for more comments thanks. AnemoneProjectors 12:39, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

I'd actually like you to say why you think it should remain as Dean (unreferenced) instead of being accurate and referenced, instead of just telling me that I should discuss the article. -Trampikey^{(talk)(contribs)} 12:51, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Both arguments have some merit, but it looks as though Maisie Smith has been submitted for this year's award ceremonies as Tiffany Butcher. (British Soap Awards 2010, Inside Soap Awards 2010 - there are other sources for the same awards that also use Butcher rather than Dean, so it's not a case of the websites themselves making a 'mistake' as it were.) Given that, I think it's acceptable to change the name to Butcher. Frickative 12:53, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

I already gave my reasons - storylines and the fact that the credits have made mistakes with Amira, Fatboy and Ali Inzamam, for example. Of course I am willing to go with the majority. AnemoneProjectors 13:01, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

That said, I'll never accept it personally until it's reference on-screen. AnemoneProjectors 13:04, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Then it's a good job that your personal acceptance has no effect over the Wikipedia article anymore. -Trampikey^{(talk)(contribs)} 13:06, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Lol, it would be very handy if every character with a contentious surname was shown to smile proudly at a close up of their Deed Poll certificate, but I think it's fine to use the real world sources we have now over waiting for an in-universe mention that might never occur. Frickative 13:09, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

I have solved the issue with an edit to the lead. I trust everyone is happy with this. AnemoneProjectors 13:21, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Long walks are great for gathering thoughts. I remembered that Tiffany said "I'm Tiffany Butcher", though at the time we were saying to wait for proper confirmation as this was immediately after she was told that Ricky is her father. Her parents probably made arrangements off-screen to change her birth certificate, changing her name at the same time. AnemoneProjectors 16:31, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

lol bickering between Trampikey and AP. It's just like old times :) GunGagdin^Moan 16:32, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

lol sorry. Also, I did say we should wait for storylines or credits, so I guess I was wrong. By the time it was changed again, I had forgotten what I had said and was waiting for just storyline confirmation (which we still haven't had but kind of have, I suppose we can assume it all happened off screen). AnemoneProjectors 16:44, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00t9svw - she is credited as Butcher. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Littlebecky (talk • contribs) 11:53, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, we know, this has already been said. The discussion is already over, the article already says "Tiffany Butcher". AnemoneProjectors 12:29, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Butcher?

I know this has been discussed but that was about 2 years ago. Now, she is rarely referred to as Dean and is butcher so should the article name change — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.20.177.169 (talk) 19:07, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

You mean you're proposing a page move? Yes maybe it's a good idea to discuss that again. –AnemoneProjectors– 13:04, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes because I think she is much more commonly referred to as Butcher now, in fact I'd forgotten her surname was Dean, so have other people I've spoken to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.20.188.79 (talk) 07:04, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

I say Butcher. I'll start a discussion at WT:EE. George^Ping! 07:49, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 13:03, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

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Tiffany Dean → Tiffany Butcher – Discussions on article talk page and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject EastEnders have grown stale, but current consesnsus seems to be to move the article. Hopefully opening an official request here will allow the move to take place. Relisted--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 19:18, 20 June 2012 (UTC) U-Mos (talk) 11:18, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support seems reasonable. Unreal7 (talk) 23:03, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
• Support GunGagdin^Moan 18:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
• Support Eshlare (talk) 23:40, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Recurring or regular?

I've noticed Tiffany's classification is 'recurring' but wasn't she always considered a 'regular'? Livin'InAGhostTown (talk) 21:02, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

She was, so I've changed it, but shouldn't she be "departing" as well? –AnemoneProjectors– 14:22, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

New pic

About time we had one :-) –AnemoneProjectors– 17:57, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Moo! :-) GSorby — Talk/Contributions 18:15, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Moo?! –AnemoneProjectors– 15:49, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

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Joey and Alice

While Tiffany may not have been extremely close to Joey and Alice, they were still family members and shared a lot of scenes together (like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8vIVySJcno where they had a good deal of interaction). I think that they should both be included on Tiffany's page as others could benefit from understanding the connections. Connorguy99 (talk) 02:02, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

The infobox should list notable family members or those that shared notable storylines. Simply being distantly related and in the series at the same time doesn't make it a notable relationship. Sitting around the same table still doesn't make it a notable relationship. Child characters often have few notable relationships with their extended families so I'm not convinced that Joey and Alice should be included. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 14:32, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

I don't think they should be included either. Compared to Max and his kids, she had virtually no relationship with Alice and Joey and their distant cousin relationship wasn't acknowledged. Joey and Alice were more involved with Lauren and Abi. Also, on reflection, I think Amy and Ricky should be removed. Apart from during the custody battle between Jack and Roxy, I can't recall anything notable between Amy and Ricky with Tiffany and her siblings. Grangehilllover (talk) 16:52, 18 April 2018 (UTC)