Talk:Tira (Soulcalibur)

Incorrect Information

"When Tira is selected, during happy she will say, "Let's play" or when angry she will say, "I'll cut your heart out!"" It's really just minor, but all characters have two selection quotes depending on which costume they wear. Tira's P1 says "Let's Play!" while Tira's P2 says "I'll cut your heart out!". Color changes say what the costume they're based on says. For example, Setsuka's P1 says "Scatter and Die!" while her P2 says "Issen!" (If I recall correctly). Is everyone fine if I edit that in?

Also, to obtain Soul Edge, all you have to do is beat Abyss (in Tales of Souls mode) as she acquires Soul Edge there.[-Darren.Kalado]

Will she die?

In SC3's Tales of souls, it says Nightmare will kill Tira eventually. Do you think it will happen or she will escape and look for revenge? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.120.107 (talk) 15:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Someone keeps editing the information I edit in, despite it being wrong. Once again, Tira does not have two selection quotes because she is bipolar, EVERYONE does. Choose a character, then choose their alternate costume and see what I mean. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.236.70.22 (talk) 16:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Initial table broken

When editing the page the table of Tira's data displays her height and weight and the coding appears to be correct yet this data is not displayed n the article, could someone please rectify this? AiselneDrossel 10:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Irrelevant trivia fact?

"Consising of exactly 7 lines, Tira's "Character Analysis" section of this page is the shortest of any character in the series."

What an odd thing, especially since it could change at any moment if somebody adds more to that section.

Tira aiding Nightmare in SC 2?

In the opening movie of Soul Calibur II, you see lots of ravens, and they all seem to be searching for persons who have a shard of Soul Edge. One of the ravens even brings Nightmare a shard. I think those ravens are the ones that obey Tira.

It looks like the only reasonable explanation. Leemorrison 14:20, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

In that case Namco may have had plans for Tira long before III came out but just got around to her right now. It would make sense and the ravens were never explained in II either. Kou Nurasaka 02:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC

That's actually wrong. Read carefully Tira's profile: the first time she met Nightmare, he was already Soul Edge's will rather than Siegfried as in SCII. Also, she encountered Zasalamel the first time she tracked Nightmare, shortly after he reaminated Nightmare's armor. Tira never knew Nightmare while he was Siegfried, thus she couldn't be helping him at SCII.

Unless Namco states otherwise, any mention of Tira prior to SCIII is speculation, and not worth mentioning in articles. — Nahum Reduta [talk|contribs] 10:26, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Flaws within "Character Analysis"

The Character Analysis starts with a very confusing argument about what tier Tira belongs to. The analysis would benefit from a better description of her placement. Also, the analysis lack references to attacks and movements, compared to other analysises which take up stances and attacks, their effects etc. I suggest that her lack of stances is mentioned here. The analysis also contains no direct references, namely her infinite loop attack (I suppose it references to Canary Waltz C minor, E Major and Halcyon Rondo C minor and E Major...). I recommend that someone add pertinent details about her moves, for example the name "single ring-out move" (I consider her a queen in ring-out, since she has four excellent ring-out moves (Grove Disc, Glissando Claw, Rhythmic Hook and Tenuto Sweep) for earthbound opponents and many moves when the opponents are in the air). One last thing, "...and her acrobatic throws are nice to look at" - honestly! It feels just awkward to put those kind of comments in an analysis. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.183.140.154 (talk) 20:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

Bipolar Disorder?

In the opening section of the article it says that it is implied that Tira suffers from Bipolar Depression. Has this actually been confirmed or is this just speculation. In the later case its unlikely considering that BPD is a shift which occurs over 6 mounths rather than every other moment. --Bisected8 04:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe that it's been confirmed in Soul Calibur 3, though I'll see if I can cite it. And obviously, NAMCO hasn't done its research on the disorder, though most companies don't (with the common schizophrenia misconception). -[Darren.Kalado] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.61.83.90 (talk) 20:54, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Her character designers described her as emotionally unstable, but never anything saying she's bipolar. I'll remove that (I haven't touched any of the leads in any of these articles yet)--Kung Fu Man (talk) 21:35, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I realize that this is a long dead topic, but I had to chime in anyway. It is true that Tira does not show the symptoms of bipolar disorder, it is not true that the shift occurs over a period of 6 months. A bipolar shift can last from hours to as much as a few months, but usually lasts only a few days.--68.32.17.238 (talk) 18:39, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Character Information Consistency

I noticed we have a rather interesting setup for Tira's "1: Character Information" section of her page. Do you think we should arrange the other Soulcalibur articles so that way the share the same format? - KeatontheBlackJackal (talk) 00:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Soul Edge or Soul Calibur version of her weapon

I heard that her Soul Edge or Soul Calibur (can't remember which it is) version of her weapon is an Ouroboros. Is that true? (Each character has a series of special weapons that can be unlocked in the game, the SE or SC of which is one of them.) 85.211.128.174 (talk) 23:06, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Hair color and length

Ok, what happend to Tira's hair? First, it was green then now it's brown? It was also way shorter in SC3. Moogle 12 (talk) 12:50, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

A persons hair tends to get longer as time passes. That and it's a video game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.215.10.1 (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Canon Ending?

Whoever said Tira's first ending is canon has no sources, and also unlikely, considering Nightmare has Soul Edge in SC IV. Mythmonster2 (talk) 17:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Gameplay

Okay, this is pretty much just like the old character analysis section from before. I'm removing these for the same reason people from before deleted the character analysis section. If you want to find out why, check out Taki's and Kilik's talk pages. If people want a strategy guide, they should go to fansites. Mythmonster2 (talk) 06:31, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Long lost sister..?

She has been speculated to be a younger, long-lost sister to Hildegard Von Krone.

This has no citation or basis whatsoever.

Just BS speculation, because they have similar faces, and both have moles.99.246.242.251 (talk) 19:30, 18 July 2008 (UTC)(Tetra Vega, not signed in)

Adding to what the previous commenter said about Tira's history, I noticed also that the other characters have large blocks of text about their history, detailed and informative, whereas Tira's seemed...shortened. I have a lot more information I could add to her history. I think that if we added more it would be a lot more informative and helpful. Is everyone OK if I edit her history?

21:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC)Swiftink —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swiftink (talk • contribs)

I've noticed veteran users tend to make frowny faces when you want to make changes like that. They consider material like that "cruft" and not suitable for entry in an encyclopedic description. Promotion and reception is supposed to be the "main" section of the article (i.e., the biggest), and if it's not the other sections are trimmed to make them the biggest.--199.79.10.117 (talk) 18:46, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

TODO

Just a note to remind me what to add from my sources into the article as I go--Kung Fu Man (talk) 10:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• [1] - Promotional render done by Tekken crew, censored on US box art.

Relevance to SC2

I removed the line at the beginning of the article suggesting that Tira was in any way related to the plot in Soul Calibur II. The running theory seems to be that the ravens handing Nightmare a shard during the opening cut scene are related to Tira. However, this does not hold enough ground as her likeliness or name were never referenced in SCII (as far as I can remember, at least). Until Namco or Project Soul confirms this, it's best to leave that theory out of the article. -70.114.226.227 (talk) 18:33, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Tira cosplay

is a Tira cosplay pic relevant to this article? Do you think it's useful to add it? Cogiati (talk) 20:13, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

IMHO, it's the worst out of four at commons:Category:Tira (Soulcalibur) (for the record, I am simply talking about composition). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:30, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Do you think we should have Tira cosplay photos in the article? We could add another picture if this particular one isn't good, or I can license more Tira cosplay pictures under the Creative Commons license for Wikipedia or produce new Tira cosplay photos if you want. Cogiati (talk) 10:51, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

I honestly feel it isn't needed. The whole "popular character for cosplay" argument feels moot when every notable character on wikipedia can be considered a popular character for cosplay.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:17, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Cogiati jsut really, really wants to promote his work. It's his photo, you know. --Niemti (talk) 08:02, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes I want to put my photo on the articles for which I produced these photos and you interfere without providing any reason why the addition of such a photo would make the article worse rather than better. I added another photographer's Tira photo now. Are you also going to remove this too? It doesn't matter though, because of your behavior I've decided to leave Wikipedia, so bye all. It was my mistake to donate my photos and also my money donations to Wikipedia. Apparently I'm not welcome here and my contributions aren't valued and nobody ever said a thank you for licensing my photos under free licenses specifically for adding them on Wikipedia. I wouldn't have licensed my photography with copyleft licenses if I knew beforehand I wasn't welcome here. Bye. Cogiati (talk) 18:41, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Contributions are indeed welcome, but it's important to note there is a procedure things are done here. While you're releasing the photos under a free license, there's the issue that a copyrighted character is represented there which means that for wikipedia, they can't be free and instead fair-use. In turn too they don't add anything to the article: people cosplay as Tira, that's understandable. People also cosplay Ivy, Taki, Talim, Voldo, etc. We may as well put a cover from a doujin in here arguing that she is a popular character for pornography. But the end result is the same: it doesn't add anything to the article.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:39, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

So would you suggest removing all cosplay character photos from Wikipedia because of what you claim is a copyright issue? If this is a valid concern then we should have no cosplay photos at all without permission from the character copyright holder. It can't be an issue just with one particular photo, it's either an issue for all photos (except those with character copyright permission) or none at all. There is a "right to report" though and I think a legal claim of character copyright over photographs of cosplayers representing that character wouldn't have a chance to stand because cosplay photography and cosplaying could easily be defended not only on free speech grounds (the "right to report", especially in public cosplay events) but also on "transformative use" basis (the cosplayer and the photographer use the character to create a totally new kind of work which isn't a derivative work of the character and doesn't prohibit the copyright holder from using and profiting from the character: those who buy videogames aren't going to stop buying them because someone cosplayed a character from the game). Of course it adds information to the article, but if you think it doesn't then I propose we should also clean up and remove all photos which don't add anything to the articles in which they appear. Furthermore, user Niemty appears to have a problem with a "conflict of interest" when the photographer of a photo also puts the photo on an article, so I'd propose to check, clean-up and remove all photos added to articles by the photo's photographer, if it's really a conflict of interest to use one's own work to improve the encyclopedia. Should we also remove translations posted by the translator of an article? I've done translations too, and also map graphics, and I did them specifically for specific articles, just as I did many of photos I wanted to contribute (but now seems unlikely as apparently contributions aren't welcome: Niemty removed some of them because of what he considered "pushing" my own work) so to satisfy Niemty's concerns over "conflicts of interest" perhaps I should remove my translated articles and my map graphics too to avoid having someone accuse me of "conflict of interest" or "pushing" my work as a translator or map cartographer. Or is it only photographers who aren't allowed to add their own photos on Wikipedia articles? Cogiati (talk) 19:02, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The question of copyright with cosplay is a complex one. Based on the usual issues, the photographer owns copyright over the photo they took, so they need to release it under an appropriate license (which is fine in this case). There is a bit more complexity when it comes to personality rights, but photos taken in a public place, especially with the permission of the subject, where it is expected that people will take photos, should be fine. Thus the main issue comes down to the copyrighted design of the character. As I understand it, this hasn't been fully tested in law in regard to cosplay characters, but the attitude on Commons has been a bit less strict than normal - if the photo depicts the character in general, rather than focusing on a separable aspect (such as a mask) it should be ok. - Bilby (talk) 01:39, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

This cosplayer at this event at the time of photography by many photographers was also interviewed by the MTV television channel (I also photographed and videotaped the whole interview, and they were using the same camera model I was using) and the interview was aired, and magazines and other publications have used as lead photos for their articles for the event photos very similar to the ones I took of this cosplayer and character. Apparently the MTV and the magazines and other journalists didn't feel copyright was a problem when they aired their interview of this cosplayer dressed up as this character at this exact event, and they included both close-ups of the costume as well as general photos of the whole costume. Copyright was instituted simply for helping creators to have an income and the US Constitution specifically says that copyright merely exists to promote the arts etc, I don't think the copyright owner of a character design could stop publications of cosplays, since their income from their work isn't threatened, their work isn't related to photography anyway (I didn't use the character from the cosplay to create a competing video game) so there is the tranformational defense regarding possible copyright infringement lawsuits (Google recently won a suit because its use of photos is tranformational), and publication is protected on free speech grounds (the First Amendment of the US Constitution) as well as freedom of the press, the right to report etc. Personality rights start being relevant when a photo is used in a commercial advertisement for a physical product, e.g. on packaging for biscuits, and apparently use of a photo in an encyclopedia or image database (Commons) isn't a commercial advertisement for a physical product (there is a case of a singer vs Corbis in which one of Corbis' defenses was that the singer's image wasn't used in a physical product as an advertisement so the personality rights wouldn't apply). There are lots of other cosplay pictures on Wikipedia and Commons, so if there is a copyright problem with one picture then there is a copyright problem with all of them as well as all uses of such pictures by magazines etc. I doubt any judge would ever be able to justify a claim raised by the copyright owner of a character used in cosplay, such a suit would probably be thrown out before reaching the courtroom. But to my awareness, it hasn't been tested. Cogiati (talk) 02:31, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I don't feel that there is an issue based on current policy in Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons with the use of photos of copyrighted characters depicted by cosplayers in order to depict cosplay or the cosplayer. We may hit problems about using them specifically to depict the character, but that isn't the issue here. More generally, we tend to be a bit more restrictive in regard to fair use than what is employed outside, partially because of our expectation that people will reuse our content, and what is fair use for an encyclopedia might not be fair use for reusers.

When Commons went down this line before, the decision was that there is a potential issue, but for now Commons is working on the assumption that cosplay photos of copyrighted characters can be released under a compatible license by the photographer. I'm happy from a copyright and policy perspective to see your photos used in articles, and I love seeing more people sharing photos of cosplayers. :) Thus all is good from that perspective. Editorial decisions are therefore the tricky part. - Bilby (talk) 02:42, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

I feel that if a cosplay photo is used in a character article it's used to illustrate the cultural impact of the character (the fact that cosplayers found the character important and interesting enough to cosplay it) rather than the character itself, so I'd think it's OK to use a cosplay photo in a character article too. I also know a photographer sells a calendar with cosplay photos and I haven't heard any copyright owner of the characters involved making any claim, but maybe he has sought explicit permission. I think the issue is similar to the freedom of panorama issue, and in general most countries have recognized that taking a photo of a copyrighted artwork (e.g. architecture etc) in a public place is OK and the artist's copyright won't affect the photograph's copyright, normally. I think it's safe to use cosplay photos in an encyclopedia or image database. Cogiati (talk) 03:44, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

And I feel you're missing something here: many characters get cosplayed as. If a character is notable, chances are people are going to cosplay it. Has there been any particular statements stating that Tira is exceptionally popular for cosplay over others in reliable, third-party sources? Is there a particular reason it should be mentioned here above all other characters? Again going to use the example of pornography: hentai of Tira exists. Should that be mentioned simply because it does? Of course not. Same with fan art: it exists, but doesn't mean we have to note it.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 05:19, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

• • I still believe the article should show the cultural impact of the character, and if people cosplay the character then apparently the character has a cultural impact. Cogiati (talk) 23:51, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
    • Also, the article doesn't even contain the information that Tira cosplays are being done. Irrelevant to photos, perhaps it would be a good idea to add the text info to the article that "Tira as a character has also been used for cosplays." Can somebody find a source? Cogiati (talk) 00:40, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
      • Or maybe include the info in some list of cosplay characters.. Cogiati (talk) 00:41, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

"Cruft"

Her backstory actually should be added to the article in a condensed form. --Niemti (talk) 08:46, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

"Tira first appeared in Soulcalibur III, as an assassin that fled her previous group due to her mental instability. Though she attempted a peaceful life in a quiet city, she found her urge to kill eventually uncontrollable and wandered until she learned of the living sword Soul Edge and its wielder, Nightmare."

That's already in there. It can be expanded upon a little but in all honesty it doesn't need to be that massive block the anon posted, which was, indeed cruft: a bunch of useless data that doesn't help with the understanding of the character. Especially not when it's been copied verbatim from another source.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:01, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Media interest

MTV Greece journalists interview a cosplayer dressed as Tira at a comics and cosplay convention

This image can be useful for showing media interest in Tira-inspired cosplays, what do you think? I propose to add it to the article. We already have sections for the use of Tira in videogames, promotion and trading cards, perhaps we should also show the impact of Tira in cosplay too. It shows famous local cosplayer Sofia Koutsouveli aka Sofia Lucifairy being interviewed by a major television station, she is the winner of Comicdom 2011 competition (she also happens to be my model in many pro photoshoots I've produced) and would be good to add to the Tira (Soulcalibur) article to illustrate the media interest in her Tira cosplay by television journalists and other photojournalists who interviewed her and photographed her for her Tira costume whe made herself. I think the fact that a Tira cosplayer was interviewed for major television station is significant and it shows the impact of Tira outside videogames. In fact lately Tira cosplays are becoming much more usual here and the interview was discussed a lot in the local cosplay community, inspiring many other cosplayers to pursue dressing up as Tira. Obsession with Tira for cosplays has been quite a well-known local phenomenon in the local cosplay community, I believe it's significant enough to be documented with the inclusion of a picture from the interview which started it all. Cogiati (talk) 12:18, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

English voice

Thanks to SCV we were finally given the names to assign to recurring characters (especially those that were still in question). As such, we have a "Katie McNulty" who is seen nowhere else to most everyone's knowledge. Most say it's a pseudonym for Laura Bailey since she's known to have done work for the game, but Bailey is known for being left off any nonunion videogame. To this end, I believe that McNulty is the actress of Tira who has long eluded us. Regardless of whether or not Jennifer Hale ever truly did voice this character, it's fair (and more correct) to at least say that "Katie McNulty" voiced the character until we receive more information, right? 75.127.153.60 (talk) 03:32, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

The problem is without a citeable source, it falls under original research which we can't use. Hale has stated in emails that she was the VA for Tira (though Nitemi didn't upload them to WP commons as far as I'm aware...), but we can't use process of elimination when it comes to something like this.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 14:44, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

If you want to convince anyone that Hale is indeed Tira's voice, then you'd best provide irrefutable proof that these emails from Hale herself do, in fact, exist. Otherwise, I have to presume that they're merely a rumor. 68.198.70.54 (talk) 15:48, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it was a rumor. And more accurately, it was all a dream...OR WAS IT? --Niemti (talk) 16:57, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

All right, then, so can we at least agree that Katie McNulty is the most likely actress given that the SCV game credits, a primary source of information, provided that name and that, when all other names are properly exhausted with McNulty remaining, that the last remaining female role must then fall to the last remaining female actress by default? 68.198.70.54 (talk) 18:09, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Hale did Tira's voice. Don't log off to post. --Niemti (talk) 18:15, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

OK, I've honored my end. Now quit dodging the subject at hand. You should have nothing to hide if you're telling the truth about what you say. Now prove it. Veritatem dilexi (talk) 18:49, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

I already did, tok bad you were too busy loging off last year to notice. Btw, nice fake account. --Niemti (talk) 19:30, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Forget it, you're not worth debasing, my European friend. I leave the rest to the common folk. Veritatem dilexi (talk) 19:48, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Is there a chance we can at least see some of these emails that she allegedly sent? The fact that they have not yet surfaced in their original form (i.e. as a screenshot) is a fact I find suspect. Until then, the only real source that Hale voicing her comes from is IMDB, which is not considered usable. --Shadoman (talk) 20:50, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Letters or no, it doesn't matter in the slightest. SCIII Tira is Jennifer Hale, and she quit with her other Tales of Symphonia VAs when Cup of Tea had to narrow its pool. She may not actively admit it, but that's only because of her contracts. Just push the reset button on your analysis and start over with a fresh outlook, free of fear and suspicion, and the truth will dawn upon you like the morning twilight: Hale played her first, and Katie took over afterwards for IV onwards. It really is as simple as that. No need to twist yourself up inside over it. Veritatem dilexi (talk) 22:02, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

No reliable sources found for Jennifer Hale and Katie McNulty. I'm afraid. Homechallenge55 (talk) 17:31, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

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