Talk:Tôn-Thất Tiết

Surname

His name seems to appear in Western media without diacritics, but with a hyphen, as "Ton-That Tiet." In Vietnamese sources it seems always to appear as Tôn Thất Tiết, without a hyphen. Badagnani 00:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Citizenship

Is he a French citizen? Badagnani 00:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Heritage

Is he part of the former royal family of Vietnam? Badagnani 00:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

In answer to the three questions above; He's French, French use Vietnamese diacritics, and yes. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:31, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved per nom. In addition, this does appear to be the way he spells his own name [1]. DrKiernan (talk) 21:02, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

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Ton-That Tiet → Tôn-Thất Tiết – [Restore undiscussed move] Per WP:UE "German for German politicians", Vietnamese-born French classical composer with primary notability in French and Vietnamese sources: Bibliothèque nationale de France Tiết Tôn-Thất - Compositeur français d'origine vietnamienne. Adopte la nationalité française en 1977. Directeur de l'Association France-Vietnam pour la musique..."; Southwest Chamber Music "composer Tôn-Thất Tiết...; Will also accept partial restore to Tôn-Thât Tiêt per Ensemble InterContemporain "Incarnations structurales (1967) du compositeur vietnamien Tôn-Thât Tiêt se déploie dans une double culture orientale et occidentale,... etc. Unusual double-barrelled royal family name Tôn-Thất first, then given name Tiết is correct, in view of changed nationality defer to French adaptation with hyphen [as BLP subject's own usage and as previous state of article 2007-2011] over Vietnamese birth form without hyphen. Also per WP:AT "Søren Kierkegaard," WP:EN "Tomás Ó Fiaich, not Tomas O'Fiaich," WP:MOSPN "Paul Erdős," WP:NCP "Antoni Gaudí," and consistency with Camille Saint-Saëns, André Previn, Noël Coward etc. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:51, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

From this point onwards please indicate preferences between (i, ii, iii) and second choice:

(i) full restore Bibliothèque nationale Tôn-Thất Tiết,

(ii) partial restore Ensemble InterContemporain Tôn-Thât Tiêt,

(iii) fully anglicized as Ton-That Tiet

Thanks In ictu oculi (talk) 07:02, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose, per Washington Post and Variety, which give this name without diacritics. Amazon and Guide to the Pianist's Repertoire give "Tôn-Thât Tiêt", the Frenchified form of his name sans tonal marks. In Vietnamese, he is Tôn Thất Tiết (no hyphen). So the proposed form is a multilingual mash up. Kauffner (talk) 05:22, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Following this comment have added in "[will also accept partial restore to Tôn-Thât Tiêt per]" before "Ensemble InterContemporain Tôn-Thât Tiêt" in proposal In ictu oculi (talk) 06:57, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

For the benefit of those who haven't been round this piano 'n' times before, the same washingtonpost.com website fails to represent Saint-Saëns correctly and the Variety.com website has "Saint-Saens" also, so neither is a WP RS for the orthography of French composers. The French sources are mixed, but the better ones, as Southwest Chamber Music does, give full spelling. But even if they are mixed then that requires discussion, which is another reason (the main one being the failed 07 August RM for 12 towns just prior to this move) why the article should never have been moved without discussion in the first place. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:48, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• Support full restore, same rationale as at Talk:Lac Long Quan. Not sure about the hyphen. The "partial restore" seems similar to "Paul Erdös" with umlaut rather than double-acute accent: an attempt to mimic the correct orthography within heavily constrained typographic limitations that permit only Western European diacritics; however Wikipedia and modern computers do not have such typographic limitations. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 03:57, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
• Support keep the correct spelling, the usage name redirect could clarify things. ༆ (talk) 03:45, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
• Suggestion (with no opinion): Whatever the outcome here, please make sure that every possible permutation of the name is covered by redirects. I suspect that most English-speakers referring to the article would be baffled by the niceties of Vietnamese-French orthography (I know I am) and would simply follow whatever they see in whatever sources motivate them to seek more information here—newspapers, magazines, blogs, or whatever, themselves orthographically aware or not. Drhoehl (talk) 02:19, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
• Support; more accurate spelling. I'm happy for alternatives to be covered by redirects (redirects are cheap). bobrayner (talk) 17:00, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose non-English French-Vietnamese mishmash proposed for article title. Such a mishmash is not more accurate, and a non-English title is not readable by most English native speakers. English Wikipedia is supposed to make knowledge more accessible to English speakers, rather than more inaccessible. LittleBen (talk) 10:19, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.