Talk:Tilsit cheese

Havarti

Havarti and Tilsiter cheese may have similarities but they are distinctly different cheeses. One is semi-soft and the other is semi-hard. Their flavors are also distinctly different. Dr. Dan (talk) 00:14, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I have removed the whole section. The reference given was the production standard, which made no mention of regional varieties. Pyrope 14:34, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

That makes sense and was a good idea. I also think that the links to the Danish cheese category is not correct. Simply put, if a Stilton is made in Wisconsin it doesn't become an "American" cheese, any more than an Emmentaler becomes a Finnish cheese if it is manufactured in Finland. As for Tylzycki that is just a foreign language variant for the name of Tilsiter cheese and seems another odd entry on English WP. Dr. Dan (talk) 17:29, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

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What is Tilsit, what is Havarti ? To-day ther are commercial mass produced varieties sold under the mane of Hawarti and Tilister and htey have NOTHIN in ocmmom with hte taste and falvour opf hte original cheesed.

You "filter mosquitoes but swallow camels" here on Wikiipedia. You pay attention to references of little importance, as the situatiopn of today has nothing to do with the old traditions described in you reference litterature. No references are neede, only a vistist top a super-market; ther you wil, be convinced of the present very confusing situation.

See more below:

Dear friends,

i have many time been grateful to Wikipedia, when quickly needing information on many topics.

But regarding cheese, I find Wikipedia a disaster! The problem is, that the names of cheese nowadays do not mean the same as in former days. Many cheese producers have “rationalized” the manufacturing processes, which in its turn has had a severe impact on the properties of the cheese.

Classically you can group cured cheeses made with the aid of rennet according to the

- milk source . fat content (i.e fat in percentage of the dry matter) - firmness (a funtion of the water ocntect in the fat free part of the cheese) - method of curing (from hte innner by natural or added lactobacteria and or propionic bacteria; from the inner and from the surface with smear bacteria or molds; blue weined cheese cured with Penicillium roqueforti) - texture (blind, irregular eyes, small eyes, big eyes)

Every manufacturer may produce cheese wich differs from other “brands” due to the quality of the milk, the used cultures, the cheesemaster skill and existing equipment. Anyhow, if you use a known tradfitional name, the cheese should, in my opinion, comply with the characteristcs of the cheeses mentioned above.

Unfortunately cheeses, which originally were made with ripening cultures on the rind are nowadays by many dairies manufactured rindless. The danes were among the first to abandon the traditions in favour of commercial interest. They called the cheese as before, but they make it in a mor economic way, no matter how it affects the taste etc. So htey started producing rindless Havarti parrallelly to smear ripened Havarti. Like making sparkling wine without bubbles!

So when the consumer today buys a cheese under the name of eg. Tilsiter, Havarti (Danish Tilsiter) or Port Salut, he can get either the original version or the modern “variety”, which has very little in common with the authentic cheese qualitylity. And Codex alimentarius approves of this misuse of cheese names, after big cheese manufacturers have lobbed efficiently.

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So how should Wikipedia now act? I my opinion nearly all articles on cheese should be revized. The articles I have read - in English, German and Swedish - do unfortunately not pay enough attention to the traditional classification of cheese, nor to the confusing situation of to-day, when the same cheese name is used for product made and cured in entirely different manners. They mostly refer to old books on cheeses, the authors of which have not been aware of the changes and trends.

An when I have tried to improve the articles, my corrections and additions have been removed, because I could not refer to any printed source. Of course not, because no litterature is up-to-date! And the product standards of big manufacturers, although open to everybody on the web, and the advertisments in papers are for some reasons not considered trustworthy by the Wikipedia team .

Do I have to publish a book, before the Wiki-team can accept what can obviously be seen in every Super-market?

Best regards,

Jan-Erik Ingvall

Dairy enigneer, University of Helsinki, Product and quality manager in the cheese sector since 1975.

P.S Is you want poeple to contribute to and actively improve the contents of Wikipedia, you must make it much more simple. The bureocracy and all rules and hints----- I do not have time or stamina to study them in details.

I suggest you should be able to send comments and then someone after evaluating them makes the corrections on the Wiki-page.

Solstrand (talk) 09:56, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Swiss cheese?

According to the cheese shop in my neighbourhood (specialized in cheese), Tilsitter is Danish, not Swiss. So who is right here? Paolingstein (talk) 14:36, 21 June 2023 (UTC)