Talk:Military junior college

Requested move 1

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 19:02, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

United States Junior Military College → United States Military Junior College – I mistakenly moved the page. The previous name was actually correct. See source [1]. Šolon (talk) 20:23, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. The consensus is that military junior colleges exist exclusively -- or almost exclusively -- as US institutions. The current article title is thus needlessly lengthy, as well as being improperly capitalized, a fault that leads to unnecessary ambiguity. The single substantive argument advanced in opposition to this proposal -- that military junior colleges also exist in Canada -- proffers only one such example in evidence, an exceptional case that can be (and is already) dealt with in a hatnote. Xoloz (talk) 18:32, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

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United States Military Junior College → Military junior college – This appears to be a US-specific concept; indeed, the proposed title already redirects here and matches the corresponding category. WP:NCCAPS would seem to also apply. --Relisted. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:23, 8 May 2014 (UTC) --BDD (talk) 19:05, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose military high schools are not a solely US concept, and some high schools are also called "junior colleges" (or college), some even have a degree of tertiary education. Further, Canada has military junior college. -- 70.24.250.192 (talk) 07:29, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
  • @70.24.250.192: - re "Further, Canada has military junior college". Can you provide a link? I can't see that. NickCT (talk) 18:43, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

But High schools and Junior colleges are separate topics, so that could be dealt with using hatnotes. If Canada does have one or more military junior colleges, that changes the equation. --BDD (talk) 18:48, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, Canada has military junior college that is not high school, and provides some tertiary education. -- 70.24.250.192 (talk) 21:03, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

@70.24.250.192 - Can you provide a LINK to support this statement??? NickCT (talk) 21:13, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

College militaire royal de St-Jean is a junior college (CEGEP-type) that is also a military college (NOTE: Royal Military College of Canada is a university) -- 70.24.250.192 (talk) 21:16, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Ok, but it doesn't look like College militaire royal de St-Jean is referred to as Military junior college. I don't see how moving this page to Military junior college would cause ambiguity. NickCT (talk) 23:28, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

St-Jean is a military college and a junior college. It is described as a military junior college in the wild [2] ; and as a military CEGEP, where "CEGEP" means junior college [3][4] ; The target requested "military junior college" is descriptive, with military modifying junior college, and not "junior military college" where junior modifies military college. As such it should be like the military high school article, and cover the world, instead of just covering the United States. The requested title is not a prescriptive Military Junior College capitalized, but uses the generic. -- 70.24.250.192 (talk) 04:19, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

• Comment the category tree needs to be corrected by adding "United States" to it, and reparenting. Thus we can categorize the Canadian school into the parent category. -- 70.24.250.192 (talk) 07:34, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. And if we can win this one, perhaps we can also revisit State University. Andrewa (talk) 10:26, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
• Support. As Military junior college already redirects here, "United States" serves no disambiguation purpose and needs to be removed per WP:AT. It's not part of the subject's name, as can be seen, for example, here. Additionally, the current title appears to fall afoul of WP:CAPS. Other systems already appear under their own titles (Military high school, Canada's Royal Military College Saint-Jean, etc.) and are already disambiguated through the hat note. Creating a dab page at "military junior college" is a bad option as I can't find any source that uses that specific term for any countries other than the U.S. even through direct searches like "military junior college" Canada.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:09, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
• Support - can be assumed to have primary topic until we at least have evidence that multiple military junior colleges even exist outside the United States. Red Slash 04:04, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
• Support. This is a generic concept. There is no such thing as the United States Military Junior College. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:27, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
  • This article is only about the things in the US, not the generic concept of a junior college (such as a CEGEP or a sixth form college) which provides military education, for which some exist outside the US. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 06:28, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
    • I'm aware of that. However, United States Military Junior College implies a proper name. Military junior college (United States) would be the correct title if disambiguation was needed, but I'm not sure it is. Are there any institutions outside the United States actually called "military junior colleges"? -- Necrothesp (talk) 21:15, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
      • Yes, but most instances outside the US use the various synonyms and local variants for junior college, for which the term "junior college" is synonymous, so if X is also called a junior college, and school Y is a "military X", then by transitivity, it is a military junior college. Or for which "junior college" is one of the English language translations for the local term. It would depend on whether you want to have a worldwide perspective from the generic term or not, since junior college is a synonym for various local terms which are more predominant locally as they are the local term. It's like "elementary school", should elementary school only cover schools in areas where "elementary school" is the dominant local term, or all primary schools, regardless of whether "primary school" is the dominant local term or it is "elementary school". Ofcourse that only deals with the case where the area speaks English. If it doesn't then it won't even use "junior college" since the local term won't be in English. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 04:10, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

This article isn't about junior colleges, it's about "military junior college". If that phrase isn't used for institutions outside of the United States (there's no evidence it is) the title isn't ambiguous. Other similar institutions can be found through the hat note just as easily as they could through a dab page.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:13, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

This article is about military junior colleges in the United States. If a military school outside the US, say in Canada is a junior college of the type that is locally referred to as a CEGEP, but which is a junior college, for which our article on junior colleges calls a type of junior college, then a military CEGEP is a "military junior college". Just as a "military secondary school", "military highschool" is a "military high school". These academies in the United States are junior colleges that provide military education, so are no different from other things called "junior college" when using synonyms which provide military education. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 04:34, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

If no other sources use the specific phrase "military junior college" for institutions outside the United States, we shouldn't treat the term as ambiguous and thereby make it harder for readers to find the article on things actually called "military junior college". In contrast, "junior college"[5][6] "military high school"[7][8] are terms that have been used for institutions in various countries, and are thus ambiguous.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:47, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

• Support. U.S. only topic, so need to include United States in the title. Calidum ^{Talk To Me} 23:07, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

• Support per nom, especially to correct the capitalisation per WP:NCCAPS. —  AjaxSmack  17:30, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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