Talk:United States Space Force rank insignia

Rank vs. rank insignia

@AzureCitizen:, first off I want to say your move to standardize the page names was absolutely the right move, but I think it brings up an interesting point for discussion. Should these articles be titled “rank” or “rank insignia”. I would personally argue rank, as they topics are beyond just the insignia themselves, but I want to hear your thoughts? Garuda28 (talk) 02:02, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I think I would be okay with either convention just as long as they are uniform (no pun intended) throughout the encyclopedia. If the article title ends with "ranks", then it's a broader topic which encompasses both the insignia and other related items such as the history or perhaps information about what type of echelon (size and formation) a particular rank might command. If it ends with "rank insignia," then I suppose editors who look to cull anything beyond content about just the insignia alone may press their point. On the other hand, since all the other services have dedicated articles to each individual rank (e.g., Colonel (United States), Lieutenant commander (United States), etc.), we'll eventually see this issue evolve, as sometime soon the Space Force will port over a few thousand USAF personnel who formally accept USSF transfer, and then we'll find ourselves adding a whole bunch of officer and enlisted ranks to the various "U.S." articles. Back to your question, if you're looking to collectively change all the rank insignia articles on the project to drop the word "insignia," it might run into piece meal resistance which could then result in variation in the titles. On the other hand, if it was discussed first at the Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history project, it might garner support. Have you thought about bringing up the topic there? Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 02:44, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I think the page should be dedicated to rank insignia. This would bring it in line with the Air Force page (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_officer_rank_insignia). Once the Space Force gets settled and establishes their rank structure, there could then be individual pages for each rank if necessary. I would argue that the Space Force isn't developed nearly enough to garner anything past this page as it currently stands. Jedney625 (talk) 16:25, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Possible Space Force naval ranks

@Maliepa: and @Garuda28:, have you guys heard this yet? There is a proposal HERE and HERE, that is going through Congress to make Space Force ranks, naval ranks. Neovu79 (talk) 08:19, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

I have - unsure if it will pass. I added the proposal to the history section a few days ago. Garuda28 (talk) 14:13, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not sure if will end up in the final bill, but the Senate and the House hasn't reconciled their two bills yet so, it is currently an unknown. We'll know soon enough in the next month. Neovu79 (talk) 18:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Remove First sergeant and Command chief master sergeant

I am proposing that the ranks of Command chief master sergeant as well as First sergeant for E7–9 be removed, since there is no reference to them being in the updated rank structure that I could find. Just posting here first incase there is a valid reason to keep these ranks in the table? Terasail^[✉] 21:53, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

First sergeant/command chiefs are considered special modified ranks, not baseline ranks (and not one-offs like CMSSF), hence why they weren't included in the specific updated source, however they are still used. (Command chief: https://www.spoc.spaceforce.mil/Biographies/Display/Article/2380678/john-f-bentivegna; first sergeants: https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/09/15/from-uniforms-to-first-sergeants-space-force-gets-down-to-basics/). They still exist though. Garuda28 (talk) 02:47, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

@Garuda28: @Terasail: CMSgt John F. Bentivegna has an updated portrait and he's now not using the Command chief master sergeant insignia, just the regular CMSgt insignia here [1]. Perhaps they really did remove those modified ranks? KingEdinburgh (talk) 05:14, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

September 2021 Announcements with images

In September, 2021, on the official Facebook page for "Chief Master Sgt. of the Space Force Roger A. Towberman" https://www.facebook.com/CMSSFofficial, there were images of the newly announced enlisted rank insignia.

• Image 1 = https://www.facebook.com/CMSSFofficial/photos/pcb.386533979685649/386533149685732/
• Image 2 = https://www.facebook.com/CMSSFofficial/photos/pcb.386533979685649/386533209685726

Need to determine the best way to update the page to reflect this information. — MrDolomite • Talk 18:55, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

I think that the current enlisted insignia should be moved down to the history section (keeping only service insignia), and be labelled as "former" or something like that. I would properly be able to create the new SVG insignia within the next week or so. Though, I think that a better source than Facebook would be preferable. Skjoldbro (talk) 19:18, 20 September 2021 (UTC); edited 08:10, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Won't be surprised if the update gets released on other official sites soon. The Air Force and Space Force are usually on the ball with this sort of thing compared to the Army, Navy and (shudder) Marine Corps. SuperWIKI (talk) 07:27, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

When is this rank insignia effective? Immediately or some time in the future? Either way, I've added the new rank insignia to the page. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 08:09, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm guessing it is in the future, probably by the end of the 2021, seeing as this is when their own uniforms will be introduced. It would make sense to make both effective on the same time. However, more official sources on the subject would be nice. Skjoldbro (talk) 08:10, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

References

Officer Ranks

Is their any way to update the officer ranks to show the new shoulder boards they wear (with black background and delta insignia buttons)? We have seen what they look like on the new Class A and Class B uniform. 68.14.208.126 (talk) 20:44, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

@Skjoldbro: you interested in the challenge? Garuda28 (talk) 03:23, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Seems like the new service uniform hasn't been approved yet, and wont be available until 2025. So the change might be a bit premature, but I do agree that the Class A should be updated to fit the interim service dress uniform. I will have a look at it. Anyone know if there has been any changes to the Mess dress? Skjoldbro (talk) 12:23, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

No changes to Mess Dress from what I can tell yet. Garuda28 (talk) 13:21, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

SEAC

Looks like the SEAC insignia is out. https://www.shopmyexchange.com/space-force-seac-e-9-embroidered-jacket-slip-on-gore-tex-ocp/ Garuda28 (talk) 03:04, 16 November 2022 (UTC)