Talk:Persecution of Uyghurs in China
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Q1: When was consensus established to name the page Persecution of Uyghurs in China?
A1: The current title reflects the consensus established in three separate move discussions (30 June 2020, 1 April 2021, 22 January 2024), the first two that were created just over three-quarters of a year apart from each other, and the third in January 2024; please see Logs and discussions below for the full list of move discussions. In these discussions, editors discussed reporting from reliable sources in light of WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CRITERIA, the first two times establishing an affirmative consensus that the title "Uyghur genocide" is an appropriate name for the article. The third debate, immediately following a 12 January 2024 discussion that was closed as "not moved", cited WP:NCENPOV as the naming convention guideline justifying a shift to the new name. |
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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 January 2024
editThis edit request to Uyghur genocide has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The first picture has been proven to be illegitimate. The picture is in fact of a drug rehab center in Xinjiang. https://twitter.com/Kanthan2030/status/1743809318896738711 High quality pictures, including other angles, can be seen here. Xiliman (talk) 07:50, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: Twitter accounts aren't reliable sources. — Czello (music) 09:05, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Xiliman: @Czello: I looked into this, and it appears the article isn't citing any reliable sources at the moment showing that this image is depicting a internment camp in Xinjiang. So, this editor does have the right to challenge it. Perhaps there is an alternate image which comes from a reliable source? Sagflaps (talk) 23:01, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
- Really? It took me all of ten seconds [1] Horse Eye's Back (talk) 05:00, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- So that resolves their edit request if it's not already added to the page. Sagflaps (talk) 13:43, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- Really? It took me all of ten seconds [1] Horse Eye's Back (talk) 05:00, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- I have found the resource: https://web.archive.org/web/20180821032854/https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1564669932542581
- The original article should be news from Luopu County, Xinjiang, which mainly talks about how extremist religion leads them to commit crimes. This picture comes from a prison and is a normal state judicial act. There is no evidence to prove persecution. Inkuaxjieng (talk) 20:44, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Is that a blog post or a news article? I am not sure 石亭资讯 is considered a reliable source. Butterdiplomat (talk) 23:44, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- This is a news gathering platform. Inkuaxjieng (talk) 13:36, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like it’s a new aggregator without a clear original source then. Butterdiplomat (talk) 23:10, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- There is no clear source for that image either. Although some Western media forwarded it, they did not indicate the source when forwarding it. Inkuaxjieng (talk) 01:42, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- RFA's account of the provenance and content seems fairly complete - is there any reason to doubt it? Pincrete (talk) 04:42, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Still can't complete. Because Radio Free Asia is a political media, controlled by the US government.
- Template:U.S. Agency for Global Media - Wikipedia
- U.S. Agency for Global Media has a channel for all its competitors, such as Radio Free Europe for Russia. Such targeted news media cannot guarantee its neutrality and objectivity.
- In addition, this is just a text description and cannot be proven true or false. Since you think the proof link I gave is not credible, please give me a more credible link, preferably this origin article, instead of giving me a paraphrase of the RFA. Inkuaxjieng (talk) 06:23, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'm well aware of the political bias of RFA, but in this context it doesn't impact its reliability - and the article itself shows detailed fact-checking, unlike any of the PRC sources. Pincrete (talk) 08:10, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- What you said is obviously discriminatory. Inkuaxjieng (talk) 19:59, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Not in the slightest. Pincrete (talk) 03:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- What you said is obviously discriminatory. Inkuaxjieng (talk) 19:59, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'm well aware of the political bias of RFA, but in this context it doesn't impact its reliability - and the article itself shows detailed fact-checking, unlike any of the PRC sources. Pincrete (talk) 08:10, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like it’s a new aggregator without a clear original source then. Butterdiplomat (talk) 23:10, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- This is a news gathering platform. Inkuaxjieng (talk) 13:36, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Is that a blog post or a news article? I am not sure 石亭资讯 is considered a reliable source. Butterdiplomat (talk) 23:44, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- If Radio Free Asia is allowed, why not twitter? 23.28.148.2 (talk) 14:03, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Xiliman: @Czello: I looked into this, and it appears the article isn't citing any reliable sources at the moment showing that this image is depicting a internment camp in Xinjiang. So, this editor does have the right to challenge it. Perhaps there is an alternate image which comes from a reliable source? Sagflaps (talk) 23:01, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
They have an awful lot of (cowed and obedient) young male prisoners taking part in that "drug rehab program in a prison"!Pincrete (talk) 20:17, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
Increase in anti-Chinese racism?
editThe CIA-funded conspiracy theory that China is committing "genocide" against Chinese Turkic Muslims has had a demonstrable impact on the increase in anti-Chinese attitudes globally. Why isn't this mentioned in the article? 2A00:23C4:3E44:2C01:14A8:9E0:45A3:2D98 (talk) 14:11, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Bring forward Wikipedia:Reliable sources, otherwise this proposition is WP:SYNTH. I'm willing to review an RS for this if you bring one forward. JArthur1984 (talk) 14:17, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Excessive references to Adrian Zenz
editAdrian Zenz, a senior fellow at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, is referenced 6 times in the Mass detention section and 6 times in the IUDs and birth control section. An over-reliance on research produced by him, despite that he is a heavily interested character in this issue, serves against the credibility and quality of this article. As a leading scholar his findings should be mentioned, of course, but not without qualification or alternative sources and data. NipponGinko (talk) 06:46, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- It’s likely more once you dig into sources as well; there’s a significant degree of circular reporting involving Zenz. I agree with your idea generally but it’s better to approach in a concrete way. What’s the specific edit or edits you want to make to address the issue? JArthur1984 (talk) 14:02, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
Remove Radio Free Asia Sources
editGovernment propaganda has no place on Wikipedia. 23.28.148.2 (talk) 14:04, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Per WP:RADIOFREEASIA, RFA is considered reliable:
Per the result of a 2021 RfC, editors have established that there is little reason to think RFA demonstrates some systematic inaccuracy, unreliability, or level of government co-option that precludes its use.
— Czello (music) 14:07, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
Denial of abuses
editShould Uyghur genocide denial have it's own article?, I've seen a fair amount of people on the internet who deny it's happening Consistently Heinous (talk) 21:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- I’m not sure there’s enough content on the denial itself to generate a separate article, but it should definitely be included in this one. Butterdiplomat (talk) 23:26, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- I concur with Butterdiplomat's doubts about the volume being enough to start a new article. Personally I only know of a handful of 'apologist' news sites. Bear in mind that you will need independent WP:RS saying what person X/organisation Y/ group Z claim is/isn't happening and they would specifically need to say what kind of 'denial' (denial of mistreatment/ or acknowledging mistreatment, but arguing that it doesn't constitute 'genocide' for example). I'm aware of these pitfalls because of similar articles. Pincrete (talk) 05:26, 1 July 2024 (UTC)