Talk:Verizon (mobile network)

Controversy section disputed

There's a post there that says most other competitors of Verizon Wireless do not charge airtime for voicemail retrievals, however, the largest competitors, ATT & Sprint both indicate in their literature that voicemail retrievals do charge airtime from the handset. All of the said carriers, VZW, Sprint, and ATT offer service to allow a subscriber to retrieve from another handset, which will not deplete the minutes.

The2ndflood- (Show us the literature that proves AT&T and Sprint charge customers for voice mail retrievals.)

Techie2001 - (Go to att.com/wireless, choose a plan, then click on Plan Terms. Scroll to the section that covers Mobile To Mobile minutes: Mobile to Mobile Minutes: Mobile to Mobile Minutes may be used, subject to the above provisions governing unlimited usage, when directly dialing or receiving calls from any other AT&T wireless phone number from within your calling area. Mobile to Mobile Minutes may not be used for interconnection to other networks. ***Calls to AT&T Voicemail and return calls from Voicemail not included.***

Sprint's is in a similar area.

Also, the neutrality of this section is completely off. None of the other carriers' pages have controversy sections. Perhaps a separate article should be created to consolidate consumer wireless issues/concers? Could cover a lot of the topics, such as the tepid support of Cingular/ATT's fewest dropped calls claim, VZW's standard UI, Sprint's termination of frequently customer service callers, etc. Complaints about the carriers seems like it should belong elsewhere.

The2ndflood- ((Both Sprint and Cingular have Controversy articles. Sprint has it for their decision to let go of 1000 customer who were abusing their services and Cingular has one for their dropped call claim. Verizon is no different.)

Techie2001- These were posted more recently, before I disputed the section for neutrality.

Some other talking points on this section: The "crippling" reference points out the LG VX8500 handset having gone back and forth on its capability to play MP3 files. It has always been able to do so. The VX8100 had a few different software versions that may have enabled or disabled depending on which version it was shipped with. This enable/disable was available straight from the manufacturer and is easily changed in the service programming menu.

The2ndflood- (The limitation was still there from the beginning. It doesn't matter if any updates have changed that, the point of the article is to show Verizon limited those phones, along with others. Hacks have been made to change all kind of limitations.)

Techie2001- (The point was that the 8500 never had the limitation, the 8100 did. The facts are not accurate. A customer looking into these models may be misled by the article)

Also, VZW's primary competitors also restrict handsets. There is a particular bias in the writing against the company.

The2ndflood- (In what way and what carriers are limiting their handsets? Verizon uses BREW which is very restrictive. They also us a Walled Garden for their WAP access. Cingular, Sprint, and T-Mobile all use Java, and do not lock out features from their phones in the same way that Verizon has.)

Techie2001- (AT&T's release of the iPhone is a perfect example. The iPhone has zero out of box functionality, including accessing built-in features like the calendar. the iPhone cannot have user generated ringtones and games, however, Verizon's PDA's can by using third party software for the user's PC. This is not a hack, as it is on the handsets. It's a feature.)

VZW's use of BREW is hardly controversional, as the writing points out, several other companies ues it as well. The talking point is in regards to applications being removed so that users are "forced" to buy "expensive" BREW alternatives. Again, hardly neutral talking points.

The2ndflood-(It does happen. With BREW you are forced to buy Verizon BREW software. So you would have to show proof that it doesn't happen.)

Techie2001'-(The problem here is in the wording. The point makes it seem like BREW is the controversy where the user being required to purchase applications is the real controversy. BREW is not controversial, it's how Verizon Wireless deploys it that is controversial.)

A standard user interface is hardly controversial. It was a business decision that a select demographic is not happy with.

The2ndflood- (Verizon't UI is known for being restrictive. This is just something a user has the right to read about on a Wikipedia site.) Techie2001- (Again, it's not the element that is controversial, so the wording is poor. The neutral way to put it would be Some users find the standard user interface restrictive, which is somewhat reminicent of LG's user interface... rest of post is fine...)

The Data Usage has always been advertised as unlimited for internet and e-mail. AT&T has a nearly just-as-strict terms of service for their data services, limiting certain usages. The 5GB cap is noted in the terms of service, however, there are many legitimate cases of users utilizing more than that, yet still abiding by the rest of the terms who do not experience a service termination warning/notice.

The2ndflood- (The section had links to articles on Verizon who was claiming in their advertisements that their EV-DO data access was unlimited, then canceling users accounts for going over a set limit. Which Verizon never open discussed ) Techie2001- (The articles posted copies of the advertisements... that say Unlimited BroadBand Access, then the ads go on to say that it's unlimited for internet and e-mail usage. Newspapers do the same thing. The headline 'Two killed in car accident' while the article goes on to say both drivers were under the influence of drugs could be argued that the headline puts a different spin on the real story. It grabs reader's attention, then they go on to find the gist of it).

The2ndflood- I don't like when companies I support have negative things posted on them, but when it is based on facts, and supported by sources, then they are facts. We don't have the right as editors to change things that make a company look good or bad. We only have the right to keep the info from being bias. If you can find proof of any changes, then post it in the section. But deleting the entire article just because you didn't like it is NOT ALLOWED.

Techie2001- Absolutely agreed, but I did not delete the section and move it. Someone else did. When the section was listed under a separate article, I did delete the Voicemail airtime usage point because all of the major players charge for voicemail retrievals from the handset and it is not widely known that ANY carriers do so. So much that all of the carriers also bury it in their terms of service (see the specific information I copied from the AT&T site, whereas on the Verizon site, the voicemail product page has a disclaimer at the bottom of the overview indicating that airtime is required). My problem with the entire article is that it is written with the technique and wording of someone with a personal vendetta, not an unbiased view point.

Here is my suggestion for a revised section:

V CAST

I don't see why that article needs to up changed in anyway. It lists all of the major details. Features and limitations. What else is needed?

Key people update

Key people in the infobox is outdated, as Manon Brouillette resigned from Verizon and is no longer CEO of Verizon Consumer (reporting by Bloomberg confirms the resignation).

Would editors be willing to delete Manon Brouillette from the infobox based on this new information?

I work for Verizon and have a conflict of interest, so I ask others to make edits on my behalf. Thank you, VZEric (talk) 12:39, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

@VZEric Deletion completed. Cheers. Duke Gilmore (talk) 03:38, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

@Duke Gilmore: Thank you for the swift update! There are three other Wikipedia pages that also have this outdated information. You can see those requests at Verizon Communications, Jean-François Bouchard, and the Manon Brouillette article on French Wikipedia (if you happen to know French, that is). Would you be able to review those as well? Thanks for considering. VZEric (talk) 21:55, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

5G updates

Hello editors, in recent years Verizon has been making updates to its 5G network and these updates have not yet been reflected in this Wikipedia article. I would like to propose a few additions, with the draft text below. My proposed edits to the Introduction and Network section include:

• Add to the third paragraph of the Introduction: "In 2020, 230 million people were able to access Verizon's 5G, or fifth-generation, dynamic spectrum sharing (DSS) technology network; by 2022, 175 million people were covered by Verizon’s 5G Ultra Wideband, which uses mmWave technology."
• Remove from the Introduction: "4G LTE" since it is no longer a comprehensive description.
• Remove from the Introduction: "which in the second half of 2020 won or tied for top honors in each category of the RootMetrics RootScore Reports." because it is not current and is about Verizon's 4G LTE network, not the current network that utilizes 5G and 4G LTE.
• Add "5G and" to the opening sentence of the Network section and change "network" to "networks".
• In the opening sentence of the Network section, change "claims" to "claimed" for grammar purposes.
• Remove "(henceforth branded by Verizon as "5G Ultra-wideband|Ultra Wideband")" from the Network section as this became redundant with the new edits.
• Add to the end of the second to last paragraph in the Network section: "As of December 2020, more than 200 million people were able to access Verizon’s 5G network through Verizon’s DSS-enabled service, which uses lower spectrum bands that are shared between 5G and 4G LTE. Verizon reached 200 million people covered for its Verizon’s 5G Ultra Wideband, which uses mmWave and mid-band spectrum. Verizon said it would activate 100 MHz of C-Band spectrum, increasing from 60 MHz of spectrum.

• Please note that for this addition, I have several alternative sources including from Light Reading and the Ames Tribune.

Introduction

Introduction Verizon is an American wireless network operator that previously operated as a separate division of Verizon Communications under the name Verizon Wireless. In a 2019 reorganization, Verizon moved the wireless products and services into the divisions Verizon Consumer and Verizon Business, and stopped using the Verizon Wireless name. Verizon is the second-largest wireless carrier in the United States, with 143.3 million subscribers at the end of Q4 2022. The company is headquartered in Basking Ridge, New Jersey. It was founded in 2000 as a joint venture of American telecommunications firm Bell Atlantic, which would soon become Verizon Communications, and British multinational telecommunications company Vodafone. Verizon Communications became the sole owner in 2014 after buying Vodafone's 45-percent stake in the company. It operates a national network covering about 99 percent of the U.S. population.In 2020, 230 million people were able to access Verizon's 5G, or fifth-generation, dynamic spectrum sharing (DSS) technology network; by 2022, 175 million people were covered by Verizon’s 5G Ultra Wideband, which uses mmWave technology. Verizon Wireless offers mobile phone services through a variety of devices. Its LTE in Rural America Program, with 21 rural wireless carriers participating, covers 2.7 million potential users in 169 rural counties. References

Network section

Network Verizon Wireless operates 5G and 4G LTE networks. As of January 2020, Verizon claimed that 99% of the population of the United States can access their 4G network. However, OpenSignal's crowdsourced data showed 4G coverage of 95.9%. Before Verizon's LTE network was launched, the company operated an exclusively CDMA2000 network (the other major CDMA2000 carrier in the US being Sprint). Verizon began its initial tests for the 4G LTE network in 2008 in order to move from older-generation mobile communications technologies to the emerging global standard. In December 2010, Verizon Wireless launched a fledgling 4G LTE network in 39 markets. By December 2011, only a year after launch, 200 million Americans were covered with 4G LTE, in 190 markets. As of 2016, 98% of the U.S. was covered with LTE, and 92% of all data traffic was on LTE. In 2012, the service provider bought spectrum from the country's biggest cable companies, including Comcast, and Spectrum Time Warner Cable and Bright House Networks at the time) to improve its data network across the U.S. The new capacity allowed Verizon to launch what it calls XLTE (LTE on Band 4) in 2013, providing more capacity in congested and well-populated markets. Because 4G LTE is a data-transmitting network, when it launched, Verizon customers' voice calls were still carried over the company's CDMA2000 network, which was developed for 3G cellphones. In September 2014, Verizon launched voice over LTE (VoLTE); this allowed voice calls to transmit via the data-only LTE network. This also allows for simultaneous voice and data services, something that is unavailable on traditional CDMA2000 calls. Along with VoLTE, Verizon also announced support for HD Voice, which provides higher-quality audio for VoLTE calls, and native Video Calling for Android phones. In March 2016, Verizon enabled support for Wi-Fi Calling, which allows calls to be placed over a Wi-Fi network. As of August 2015, nearly 4 million of Verizon's 103.7 million subscribers used VoLTE. In 2019, Verizon announced that they plan to shut down their CDMA2000 network by the end of 2020, making VoLTE the only way to make calls on their network. A report by RootMetrics on carrier performance in the second half of 2020 ranked Verizon's network as the best in overall national performance, network reliability, network speed, data performance and call performance. Verizon Wireless and AT&T tied for first in text performance. In September 2015, Verizon's chief information and technology architect Roger Gurnani stated that Verizon was planning to trial a 5G wireless network within 12 months, with "some level of commercial deployment" by 2017. In late August 2016, Verizon officially announced that it had rolled out LTE Advanced services in 461 markets. The company promoted that the technology would allow at least 50% higher LTE data speeds on supported devices. By the end of 2019, Verizon had launched 5G service in 30 cities across the U.S. Verizon's 5G network is deployed on millimeter wave spectrum (mmWave). While fast, the high-band spectrum Verizon uses has limited range and high penetration loss. In October 2020, during a virtual event unveiling the iPhone 12, Verizon announced that it had begun to widely deploy 5G service on sub-6 GHz spectrum, branded as "Nationwide 5G". This service has a wider range than its mmWave 5G services, and is available to most existing Verizon subscribers with a supported device (unlike mmWave service, which requires one of the service's newer unlimited plans), but uses "dynamic spectrum sharing" with LTE service, and does not have the same level of speed as mmWave. As of December 2020, more than 200 million people were able to access Verizon’s 5G network through Verizon’s DSS-enabled service, which uses lower spectrum bands that are shared between 5G and 4G LTE. Verizon reached 200 million people covered for its Verizon’s 5G Ultra Wideband, which uses mmWave and mid-band spectrum. Verizon said it would activate 100 MHz of C-Band spectrum, increasing from 60 MHz of spectrum. Verizon intended to retire its 2G and 3G CDMA network in favor of LTE and 5G on January 1, 2021, but made a last-minute decision to "indefinitely" halt the retirement. They later confirmed that the CDMA network will be retired on December 31, 2022. Verizon customers using a CDMA-only device, or an LTE device that does not support Voice over LTE, were required to upgrade to a newer device in order to continue using the network. The shutdown was completed at the end of 2022 as planned. References

As I work for Verizon and have a conflict of interest, I ask others to look at my draft and make edits on my behalf. Thank you, VZEric (talk) 23:09, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Reply 13-JUL-2023

Below you will see where proposals from your request have been quoted with reviewer decisions and feedback inserted underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please read the enclosed notes within the proposal review section below for information on each request.  Spintendo  02:32, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Edit request review 13-JUL-2023

Verizon is an American wireless network operator that previously operated as a separate division of Verizon Communications under the name Verizon Wireless. In a 2019 reorganization, Verizon moved the wireless products and services into the divisions Verizon Consumer and Verizon Business, and stopped using the Verizon Wireless name. Verizon is the second-largest wireless carrier in the United States, with 143.3 million subscribers at the end of Q4 2022. The company is headquartered in Basking Ridge, New Jersey. It was founded in 2000 as a joint venture of American telecommunications firm Bell Atlantic, which would soon become Verizon Communications, and British multinational telecommunications company Vodafone. Verizon Communications became the sole owner in 2014 after buying Vodafone's 45-percent stake in the company.  Already done. It operates a national network covering about 99 percent of the U.S. population.  Declined. n 2020, 230 million people were able to access Verizon's 5G, or fifth-generation, dynamic spectrum sharing (DSS) technology network; by 2022, 175 million people were covered by Verizon’s 5G Ultra Wideband, which uses mmWave technology. Clarification needed. Verizon Wireless offers mobile phone services through a variety of devices  Declined. Its LTE in Rural America Program, with 21 rural wireless carriers participating, covers 2.7 million potential users in 169 rural counties Clarification needed. Verizon Wireless operates 5G and 4G LTE networks  Approved. As of January 2020, Verizon claimed that 99% of the population of the United States can access their 4G network. However, OpenSignal's crowdsourced data showed 4G coverage of 95.9%  Partly approved. Before Verizon's LTE network was launched, the company operated an exclusively CDMA2000 network (the other major CDMA2000 carrier in the US being Sprint). Verizon began its initial tests for the 4G LTE network in 2008 in order to move from older-generation mobile communications technologies to the emerging global standard. In December 2010, Verizon Wireless launched a fledgling 4G LTE network in 39 markets. By December 2011, only a year after launch, 200 million Americans were covered with 4G LTE, in 190 markets. As of 2016, 98% of the U.S. was covered with LTE, and 92% of all data traffic was on LTE. In 2012, the service provider bought spectrum from the country's biggest cable companies, including Comcast, and Spectrum Time Warner Cable and Bright House Networks at the time) to improve its data network across the U.S. The new capacity allowed Verizon to launch what it calls XLTE (LTE on Band 4) in 2013, providing more capacity in congested and well-populated market. Because 4G LTE is a data-transmitting network, when it launched, Verizon customers' voice calls were still carried over the company's CDMA2000 network, which was developed for 3G cellphones. In September 2014, Verizon launched voice over LTE (VoLTE); this allowed voice calls to transmit via the data-only LTE network. This also allows for simultaneous voice and data services, something that is unavailable on traditional CDMA2000 calls. Along with VoLTE, Verizon also announced support for HD Voice, which provides higher-quality audio for VoLTE calls, and native Video Calling for Android phones. In March 2016, Verizon enabled support for Wi-Fi Calling, which allows calls to be placed over a Wi-Fi network. As of August 2015, nearly 4 million of Verizon's 103.7 million subscribers used VoLTE. In 2019, Verizon announced that they plan to shut down their CDMA2000 network by the end of 2020, making VoLTE the only way to make calls on their network. A report by RootMetrics on carrier performance in the second half of 2020 ranked Verizon's network as the best in overall national performance, network reliability, network speed, data performance and call performance. Verizon Wireless and AT&T tied for first in text performance.In Sep tember 2015, Verizon's chief information and technology architect Roger Gurnani stated that Verizon was planning to trial a 5G wireless network within 12 months, with "some level of commercial deployment" by 2017. In late August 2016, Verizon officially announced that it had rolled out LTE Advanced services in 461 markets. The company promoted that the technology would allow at least 50% higher LTE data speeds on supported devices. By the end of 2019, Verizon had launched 5G service in 30 cities across the U.S. Verizon's 5G network is deployed on millimeter wave spectrum (mmWave). While fast, the high-band spectrum Verizon uses has limited range and high penetration loss. In October 2020, during a virtual event unveiling the iPhone 12, Verizon announced that it had begun to widely deploy 5G service on sub-6 GHz spectrum, branded as "Nationwide 5G". This service has a wider range than its mmWave 5G (henceforth branded by Verizon as "5G Ultra Wideband") services, and is available to most existing Verizon subscribers with a supported device (unlike mmWave service, which requires one of the service's newer unlimited plans), but uses "dynamic spectrum sharing" with LTE service, and does not have the same level of speed as mmWave  Already done. As of December 2020, more than 200 million people were able to access Verizon’s 5G network through Verizon’s DSS-enabled service, which uses lower spectrum bands that are shared between 5G and 4G LTE. Verizon reached 200 million people covered for its Verizon’s 5G Ultra Wideband, which uses mmWave and mid-band spectrum. Clarification needed. Verizon said it would activate 100 MHz of C-Band spectrum, increasing from 60 MHz of spectrum Clarification needed. Verizon intended to retire its 2G and 3G CDMA network in favor of LTE and 5G on January 1, 2021, but made a last-minute decision to "indefinitely" halt the retirement. They later confirmed that the CDMA network will be retired on December 31, 2022. Verizon customers using a CDMA-only device, or an LTE device that does not support Voice over LTE, were required to upgrade to a newer device in order to continue using the network. The shutdown was completed at the end of 2022 as planned.  Already done. ___________

Readjusted COI request

Hello editors, I want to amend my previous COI request because it seems to be too much to do in one edit and there is some confusion surrounding it. To account for some of the feedback I received, I've simplified my proposal and will focus only on the Network section for this request.

Here is a list of my suggested improvements:

• In the first sentence of the Network section, change "Verizon Wireless operates a 4G LTE network." to "Verizon Wireless operates 5G and 4G LTE networks."

• This is to add 5G to the description. As a note, editor Spintendo did fulfill this request previously however, a different editor reverted it, so it would need to be reimplemented

• Add to the end of the second to last paragraph in the Network section: "As of December 2020, more than 200 million people were able to access Verizon’s 5G network through Verizon’s DSS-enabled service. As of April 2023, Verizon reached 200 million people covered for its Verizon’s 5G Ultra Wideband."

• This is to add an update to Verizon's 5G availability.

References

If there are any questions, please let me know.

As I work for Verizon and have a conflict of interest, I ask others to look at my draft and make edits on my behalf. Thank you, VZEric (talk) 10:48, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Reply 20-JUL-2023

  Discussion required  

1. Disputatious issues ought not to be resolved through the COI edit request feature, a feature which is primarily meant for COI editors to propose nominally controversial edits to be reviewed by a neutral third party editor. The fact that my previous edit was reverted means that this issue is de facto controversial. Edit requests involving overtly controversial proposals such as the ones proposed here are not recommended for use with the {{Edit COI}} template.
2. The process of content dispute resolution needed here should begin with a discussion of the issues with local editors on the talk page. To that end, the COI editor is invited to continue the discussion below. That action may be followed by any of the subsequent dispute resolution strategies listed under WP:CONTENTDISPUTE.

Regards,  Spintendo  00:19, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

References

I'm happy to invite others to discuss this. For what it's worth, I do not think that the IP editor found anything particularly controversial about Spintendo's implementation of my last edit request. It was removed when the IP editor (who looks to be only a month old and only has a handful of edits, including for other wireless service providers, under their belt), deleted several recent edits to the article. This is not meant to be a controversial request. Verizon is now using a 5G network, yet the Network section of the article begins, "Verizon Wireless operates a 4G LTE network." This is obviously outdated and I am asking editors to consider updating it. Above I've provided recommendations for how I think that's possible. Blaze Wolf, Duke Gilmore and Completely Random Guy: would you be willing to review this request for the appropriateness of adding the most-recent information about Verizon's 5G network to the Network section? Thanks VZEric (talk) 18:55, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Completely Random Guy: I noticed you added 5G to the introduction, thanks for reviewing my request. I also agree with your note, some rewording might be in order. Here is a list of my suggested improvements to the introduction and the Network section:

• Add to the third paragraph of the introduction: "In 2020, 230 million people were able to access Verizon's 5G, or fifth-generation, dynamic spectrum sharing (DSS) technology network; by 2022, 200 million people were covered by Verizon's 5G Ultra Wideband, which uses mmWave technology."

• This is to add the most current and accurate information on Verizon 5G.

• Remove from the introduction: "which in the second half of 2020 won or tied for top honors in each category of the RootMetrics RootScore Reports."

• This is not current and is about Verizon's 4G LTE network, not the current network that utilizes 5G and 4G LTE.

• In the first sentence of the Network section, change "Verizon Wireless operates a 4G LTE network." to "Verizon Wireless operates 5G and 4G LTE networks."

• This is to add 5G to the description.

• Add to the end of the second to last paragraph in the Network section: "As of December 2020, more than 200 million people were able to access Verizon’s 5G network through Verizon’s DSS-enabled service. As of April 2023, Verizon reached 200 million people covered for its Verizon's 5G Ultra Wideband."

• This is to add an update to Verizon's 5G availability.

References

If there are any questions, please let me know. Thanks VZEric (talk) 18:47, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

I have added the changes!. However removing some of the information like the 2020 RootMetric report on Verizon's 4G LTE network I think might not be good. It is older, however still relevant I feel. Completely Random Guy (talk) 20:22, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, Completely Random Guy VZEric (talk) 11:48, 3 August 2023 (UTC)