Talk:December 2021 Russian ultimatum to NATO

Requested move 13 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to December 2021 Russian ultimatum to NATO. December 2021 Russian ultimatum to NATO appears to have enough support while still keeping in mind the spirit of the discussion (using "Russia" instead of "Putin), which participants seem to favor, with use of "Ultimatum" possibly being controversial.

Per WP:NOTCURRENTTITLE, if another title is preferred, a new RM can be opened. (closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE 15:22, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

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Vladimir Putin's December 2021 ultimatum → 2021 Russian ultimatum – The title shouldn't have Putin's name in it, no more than Soviet ultimatum to Lithuania should be "Joseph Stalin's ultimatum" or 1939 German ultimatum to Poland should be "Adolf Hitler's ultimatum". These proposals were advanced on behalf of Russia, not Putin as an individual. "December" is not necessary since no other major ultimata were issued by Russia in 2021. As for possible suffixes, "to the West" is too informal, "to the United States and NATO" is too wordy, and "on Ukraine" is perhaps too presumptuous, despite the troop situation and the singling out of Ukraine in the draft treaties. — Goszei (talk) 08:26, 13 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Waqar💬 14:48, 20 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 06:25, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps the title shouldn't include "ultimatum" at all, and be "2021 Russian security demands" or "2021 Russian draft treaties". The word ultimatum wasn't used very much by the press in reporting on the draft treaties, likely because a response wasn't requested in a specific period of time and Russia was still apparently open to substantial negotiations on the terms (see our definition at Ultimatum). — Goszei (talk) 15:44, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

"Ultimatum" is also quite vague, it does not mention who was given the ultimatum. Mellk (talk) 20:51, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

External definitions of ultimatum (example) do not include the time requirement. Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 15:21, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

• Ruwiki has a better title, "Ультиматум Путина", i.e. "Putin's ultimatum". It might be renamed like that. Saying this, the "Ultimatum" was merely a propaganda stunt, not an actual ultimatum, and probably does not deserve a separate page. Not every nonsense by Putin deserves a separate page. My very best wishes (talk) 14:29, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

This page could be renamed to Demands by Vladimir Putin in December 2021, although "ultimatum" can also be used per this source, for example. My very best wishes (talk) 19:44, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

To me, "demands" doesn't really get the article's topic across to readers. Putin demands many things, even inside his own country; "ultimatum", used in the same vein as the articles listed at Vladimir Putin's December 2021 ultimatum § See also, is much more likely to be understood.

What about December 2021 Russian ultimatum to NATO, given the article's content and to who the ultimatum was sent? Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 15:21, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I can get behind that title. — Goszei (talk) 17:44, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Military history has been notified of this discussion. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 06:26, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.