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Latest comment: 6 years ago14 comments3 people in discussion
The reference that claims the song cited above it is a single is at best questionable since said source also calls it a "track" and "song". On top of this, the song never went for radio adds in the first place, the artist never claimed it was his next single. Both of this two are huge "landmarks" for a track to become a single, just because the song was released before the album came out and it has a video (live performance) doesn't mean anything. Moreover, most websites (almost all) don't make a clear distinction between promotional single and single. All in all, without a radio, add it is definitely not the fourth single of this album (at least for now, but we shouldn't make assumptions).
Firstly, there are at least three sources on the page calling it a single. If you're gonna disregard what these sources say simply because you disagree with them, I've got nothing to say. You are basically deeming sources questionable because they are contrary to your personal belief. Secondly, radio is not everything. I cannot stress this enough, but singles are not required to be sent to radio, I don't think we need further explanation here. Thirdly, calling it a "song" or "track" doesn't mean it's not a single. The single itself is a song, i.e. the song was released as a single. Single is a format. I don't know why y'all still think this is a valid argument to bring up at all, it's absolutely irrelevant. Lastly, how are we gonna determine if publications are calling the song a single or promo single when they're referring to it as a "single"? There is nothing we can base on, and we cannot make the decision according to our personal knowledge. Hayman30 (talk) 11:26, 13 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
A source calling it a single does not make it an official single. Similar has happened to Taylor Swift with "Call It What You Want", a bunch of publications calling it a single, Billboard, NME and so on...They are "new singles" because they are new singles indeed, but that does not make them an official single. The sources are 100% reliable but they don't support "Change" as the album's fourth single as they do not call it that. One of the sources, Past Magazine doesn't even call it a single, they just say "Puth's new song" same goes for [1], [2]. "Change" hasn't been promoted as a single by the label nor sent to radio. Moreover, my personal beliefs have nothing to do with this, to begin with, and leave personal attacks aside from Wikipedia, let's be respectful. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 20:17, 13 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
LOL a source calling it a single doesn't make it a single? Information on Wikipedia comes from reliable sources, otherwise it's original search. I'm afraid you're not making any sense: it's a new single but it's not a single? Publications don't have to go as specific as calling it the fourth single, as I've said elsewhere, the level of detail you're demanding is absolutely disobliging. And again, calling it a new song doesn't mean it's not a single, and its lack of radio promotion is irrelevant when sources call it a single. I never attacked you, please don't make false accusations, which is a personal attack. Hayman30 (talk) 23:47, 13 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
It doesn't because publications are not specific, they don't distinguish an official single from a promotional single. It means exactly that! It's a new song, doesn't have to be necessarily a single, for instance, "If You Leave Me Now" it was a new song, it never became an official single. It is not, songs that became singles are published on AllAcess with radio adds or in some other websites that say so like Italian "radiodate", it can't be found on neither. A really good example is The Weekend's "False Alarm", the song had everything, video, cover all of it...it never became a single because no radio adds, yet publications called it a new single, but it was a promotional single. You understand what I am saying, similar discussion happened with Cardi B. Do we have to do this all over again? It is not an accusation or an attack at all, as you mentioned above "your personal belief", so please see what you said before speaking as it is not my personal beliefe. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 00:04, 14 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
As I said, how are we gonna determine if publications are calling the song a single or promo single when they're referring to it as a "single"? It appears to me that you haven't really read through my comments. Yes, calling it a new song does not necessarily mean it's a single (I never said it does), but it doesn't mean it's not a single either, that's why I said this is irrelevant. Again, radio doesn't mean anything...songs are not required to be sent to radio, I guess I'll have to repeat this in every comment because you're not giving up on it. The Cardi B discussion shows the exact problem: y'all are considering radio promotion as the only determining factor, disregarding what the sources say. In light of recent disputes, I would love to establish community consensus on the matter so we don't have to edit war every time. Please let me know if I should take it to WP:SONGS or you felt like it's unnecessary as I'm the (probably) the only guy fighting against this. Saying that it's your personal belief is not an attack, it's a fact and constructive criticism; none of the sources are calling it a promo/buzz track after all. Hayman30 (talk) 02:35, 14 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
Hayman, what we appear to have here is just another editor who clearly seems to making his/her verdicts about whether that song is a single or not based on subjection and emotion instead of objection and logic, which is exactly the kind of behavior and attitude that starts edit wars, arguments, and other sorts of problematic chaos like that, which in turn can usually lead to them being blocked for a variable amount of time. MarioSoulTruthFan, please do us all a favor and stop fighting with Hayman here, and also refrain from making personal attacks towards him as well. After all, shouldn't we all learn to just keep it nice and refrigerator-cool here on Wikipedia? ......Okay, maybe that's a little overboard, but you get the idea..... ;)Interlude 65 (Push to talk) 02:50, 14 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
@Hayman30: I can see we are far from agreeing if it is or not a single/promotional one, however, I do agree with that we should all contribute to that community consensus as it would prevent wars and discussions and make a more clear pathway towards what differences a single from a promotional single. I think you should take it, not because of us...but even to prevent future stuff like this from happening. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 12:11, 14 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
@Interlude65: What are you even talking about? Hayman showed sources that proves that is a single, I showed others that just called it a new track/song. I used a radio argument he said that the radio argument is not valid. We are having a discussion. No emotions or whatever are taking into account here. I made no attack whatsoever to him or his persona, beliefs, etc. While your heart might be in the right place, your comment is unfortunate. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 12:11, 14 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
Nevertheless, I found it online you should add it to the article. I just added a reference calling it a promo single, I guess Billboard can't be trusted on that matter. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 19:42, 15 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
Resolved
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 01:52, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
