Talk:Voltage regulator

Vendor Reference, National Semiconductor

I keep trying to add something but it keeps getting reverted. I would like to discuss this, because I do not believe it to be "spam" yet everyone who reverts it keeps marking it as such. I am opening this to the general community.

I firmly believe that mentioning the number 1 supplier worldwide with a link (I will be happy to provide a resource) is not spam. Voltage regulators are not merely theoretical objects, they exist and are sold on a daily basis. As such, a link to a suppliers webpage is relevant as a reference to what regulators are available at present. It also gives an idea of what parameters are important and what average parameter values might be (by looking at the datasheet). Spam is when a user tries to put something on a page as vandalism or advertisement. Wikipedia is an information source, and providing information about reality is not spam! I will not revert unless I get support, but I do believe that this is realistic. --Lagrangian 17:53, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Request

sir, i want to design a voltage-regulator of 54VDC and max load current of upto 5Amp.The max input voltage is 60VDC and the range of voltage at the output of regulator must be within 48-54Vdc.suggest ckt.

thank you

What is the min input voltage? If you want a linear regulator circuit, perhaps something like http://sound.whsites.net/project96.htm would be adequate, with paralleled output transistors (you'll need a big heat sink on the output transistors). If you want a switching regulator, I see the LM5005 "integrated switcher" can handle the voltage, but only half your desired current -- perhaps use 2 of them. Or you could use a "switching controller" such as the Roman Black voltage regulator with an external high-power transistor. Digikey lists dozens of FETs that appear to be more than adequate for around $2, such as the 500 V 12A Toshiba 2SK3568(Q). --68.0.120.35 19:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Merge

As far as I can see from a quick search on the Internet, the terms VRM and Voltage regulator module seem to always refer to components specific to use in personal computers [1]. The electronic component or circuit in general is called voltage regulator (without module). Two separate articles can be justified in this case. Paolo Liberatore (Talk) 14:22, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Since mine was the only opinion on the matter, and I am contrary to the merge, I am happy to close the discussion by stripping off the merge tags. Paolo Liberatore (Talk) 20:54, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Can a voltage regulator (or other device) be used to reduce the voltage reaching a residence by a few volts, thereby reducing the power consumption and saving money? Even a 1-2% voltage reduction would amount of considerable savings over the long term?

Running electrical and some electronic equipment at lower than the intended input voltage can cause troubles. In particular, it can force components to run at higher temperatures; at the limit this may lead to fires, more usually it will probably reduce operating life or safety margins. It is not a sensible way to reduce one's electric bill, assuming no other changes (eg, turning off lights or electric heat when not in use). As for the use of a voltage regulator with active circuits (transistor or valve) a safe design is likely to be more expense and trouble than it would be worth. Note carefully!! that any circuitry which runs on mains electric voltages is inherently dangerous, and vastly more so in a component or insulation failure. If nothing else, the design and construction would likely have to be tested and approved by an appropriate agency (in the US this could be the UL). This is time consuming and expensive, exclusive of parts and design costs.

Without active circuitry, the usual (and most sensible) method of changing AC voltages (the sort the electric grid provides) is to use a transformer. Transformers (which are NOT autoformers) capable of handling the kinds of loads in most residences (and surely a much higher portion of commercial accounts) are large, expensive, and dangerous if not properly designed and installed (eg, operating frequency, maximum amperage, safety grounding provisions, ...).

In any case, reduced input voltage will not necessarily result in lower electric bills in any case. 69.118.209.149 (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

The LM2825

The LM2825 was just cited by an editor as an example of an integrated circuit that contains a high-value inductor. Unfortunately, the LM2825 data sheet doesn't support this claim. Here's what National says [2]:

Contained within the package are all the active and passive components for a high efficiency step-down (buck) switching regulator.

So it sounds like this rather-overweight 24-pin DIP contains discrete passive components as well as the IC chip. I've reverted this editor's change. Atlant 15:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

A switching voltage regulator needs an inductor to store energy, thus there must be some sort of inductive device in the PDIP package. Also, since the price per chip is around 20$, I wouldn't be surprised if National has a special manufacturing process for this chip. Perhaps we could add a small paragraph on integrated coils in ICs (with references) since the current paragraph is somewhat contradictory. --Jcmaco 22:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I reverted this because I don't agree with "impossible". It is possible [3], although not really common. CyrilB 20:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The key is "large-valued". A large-valued inductor is currently "impossible".

Atlant 13:16, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll leave it, but I still dont agree. A large value inductor is not needed for a converter, provinding it has a high switching frequency. This sentence is inacurate, and the use of the word "impossible" makes it definitely inacurate CyrilB 15:14, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'm game: to achieve a fairly good current flow (and I'll leave the definition of that up to you), what value of inductor would you use with what practically-acheivable switching frequency? Then, how big would this inductor be when rendered onto an IC using normal metalization thicknesses? (Presumably, it would be the moral equivalent of an air-core inductor since current IC processing techniques don't allow for ferrite or other good core materials. Don't forget to account for electromigration and other nasty effects in designing the "winding".)

Would such an inductor be practical? If the answer is "yes", then edit the sentence removing "large value" and giving your specific example. But if the answer is "no", then the statement is correct as it stands: a large value inductor is "impossible" given the current state of the art.

Meanwhile, have you looked at recent reasonably-high powered brick designs? The inductors and transformers used there, even though relatively low in value (inductance) and composed of just a few "turns" created on the printed circuit board, still use a fairly large ferrite core strapped around the PC board. There just ain't no technology for making an adequate inductor directly on a small modern silicon IC chip.

Atlant 15:52, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not an expert in microelectronics, and I watch the work on integrated magnetics from a distant eye, but I know that several research groups work on this topic. The objective is to achieve switching frequencies of some MHz to several tens of MHz. This results in inductors in the 100nH range (roughly estimated, give or take a factor 10...). One of the issue is to generate ferrite powder that can be dispensed using a technique compatible with IC processing. I won't enter in further details, as I'm not an expert, and this field might be too speculative to be added to wikipedia. As I told before, my only concern is the use of the word "impossible", which is simply not true, as prototypes have already been realised. And by the way, I've just noticed that the article only addresses converters that use an inductor as storage device, not the others. Do integrated charge pump regulators exist? (this is a true question).

For the brick converters, the objective is to get the maximum power in the minimal space, so the inductor has to handle high current (several tens of amps are common), hence the big core. In an IC, the objective can be very different, for example having a very high-dynamic in the control of the converter.

To be clear, I don't want to start an edit war on some anecdotal (at least for me, not for the researchers of the domain!), and -I agree- non commercially available technology. I simply disagree with a definitive sentence which is not true and adds nothing to the article. But if you want to keep it as is, go ahead! CyrilB 20:33, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the LM2825 appears to have a discrete inductor attached to the chip inside the plastic package. Rather than use the term "impossible", would everyone be happy with a compromise saying something like "All commercially available switching voltage regulators either include a discrete inductor or require the user to supply a discrete inductor." ? --76.209.30.239 22:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

That's okay for me, you can even say that the "external inductor" kind are by far the most common. CyrilB 18:33, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

charge pump regulators

The "voltage regulator" article needs to mention charge pump regulators.

Do integrated charge pump regulators exist?

If you are looking for voltage regulators that do not require an external inductor, then yes, many "single-chip" charge pump voltage regulators exist. They don't have any inductors, internal or external. They do require a few more external capacitors than other kinds of voltage regulators. --76.209.30.239 22:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

There are even a few charge pumps (such as the MAX233 and the MAX246) that don't require any external capacitors (only one cap across power and GND). Do they use on-chip capacitors (vaguely similar to DRAM), or do they use small discrete capacitors inside the package (more like a Multi-Chip Module and analogous to what the LM2825 apparently does) ?

--68.0.120.35 19:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about the MAX233 etc specifically, but there certainly are components that generate their own internal higher voltages via charge pumps that integrate all the capacitors on the silicon. I don't know of any charge pump devices designed to power external devices that don't require external capacitors (though that hardly means they don't exist...). Evand 02:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Sanjivdogra 18:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Merge "DC to DC converter" and "Voltage regulator"

Give one good reason why we should. --Heron 13:42, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy is that 2 articles that discuss the same thing under different names (such as puma and mountain lion, gasoline and petrol) should be merged under one name.

Is there any significant difference between a "switching DC to DC converter" and a "switching voltage regulator" ?

Is there any significant difference between a "linear DC to DC converter" and a "linear voltage regulator" ?

The "DC to DC converter" article has a long discussion of "Linear" vs. "Switched-mode conversion".

The "Voltage regulator" article has a discussion of "Linear regulators" vs. "Switching regulators".

Is it possible to do "linear conversion" without a "linear regulator"?

Is it possible to do "switched-mode conversion" without a "switching regulator"?

The 2 invariably go together in real life.

So we might as well cover them together in the encyclopedia article.

--75.41.34.231 20:24, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm no expert, but when I think voltage regulator, I think of a component in an electrical system. It brings to mind a set of components or a single device within a circuit which performs the task of regulating voltage. In an automotive sense I think of a part of the charging system which directs the alternator to output at the correct voltage. Now when I hear "DC to DC converter" I think of a self contained device which converts one DC voltage into some other DC voltage with that being it's sole task. You will find such devices in Battery electric vehicles and Hybrid vehicles in place of the old charging system which consisted of an alternator and it's supporting voltage regulator. Obviously such a DC to DC converter regulates voltage, but it may contain a number of discrete voltage regulator components, I'm sure there are many other applications for off the shelf DC-DC converters.

I suppose that I would expect to find an article named Voltage regulation to cover the principle that govern the various methods of doing such. Then perhaps many other articles which cover various devices such as DC to DC converters, Alternators, Booster (electric power), Power supplys, Motor controllers, Battery chargers, etc, all of which would probably refer to the electrical principals discussed in the "Voltage regulation" article as well as Rectifier in the case of an AC to DC power supply.

Humm, I just noticed that in the Power conversion article it lists brakes down DC-DC, DC-AC, AC-DC, and AC-AC where Voltage regulation falls under the AC-AC set? I guess I would start at the top with Electricity and see how best this sort of thing fits in. --D0li0 09:39, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. Sorry if I repeat some of what D0li0 has just said, but there was an edit conflict and I had already written the following:

This is not a case of "2 articles that discuss the same thing under different names". A voltage regulator is a device, either linear or switched, that adjusts a voltage, AC or DC, to keep it within specified limits. A DC-DC converter is a switch-mode device with a DC input and a DC output. You will see from the Switched-mode power supply that a DCDC is one of the four types of SMPS. SMPS, or switching regulators, are themselves types of voltage regulators, and have a link from this article. Your proposed merge would confuse all these distinctions.

Here is a summary of the hierarchy of articles as it is at the moment:

• Voltage regulator - the 'root' article, an overview of the many types of voltage regulator
  • Linear regulator (linked from Voltage regulator)
  • Switching regulator (linked from Voltage regulator, as Switched-mode power supply)
    • Rectifier
    • DC to DC converter
    • Cycloconverter
    • Inverter

There is some overlap between the Vreg and DCDC articles, which could be corrected with minor editing. I think it is best to keep Voltage regulator as an overview, with links to sub-articles. If you're going to merge in DCDC, then for symmetry you will have to do the same for all the other subtypes, and the article will get too big. --Heron 09:49, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Heron. A DC to DC converter converts one DC voltage to another and that converted voltage may or may not be regulated. Alfred Centauri 19:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. As a term of art, DC-DC converter implies something other than a linear regulator, ie a switch-mode converter or a switched-capacitor charge pump. It is used to specify that difference. A DC-DC converter can have a regulated or unregulated output. A voltage regulator is something that monitors a supply voltage and changes something to regulate it (an internal resistance, a transistor base current, a SMPS duty cycle, etc.). A linear regulator is a device with some form of internal pass element (FET or BJT) that it biases to maintain the correct voltage at the output. A literal reading of the names is not appropriate basis for what to cover in the articles, as the terms have specific meanings in the field. Evand 23:48, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. The first paragraph of the article mentions the application of voltage regulators to AC. --Theodore Kloba 21:27, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. A DC to DC convertor is a subset of a voltage regulator. Furthermore, to me, a DC-DC converter is more of an idea or a theory while a voltage regulator is an actual product 81.215.13.145 08:28, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. A DC-DC and a voltage regulator are very different devices, even if often they perform the same function. The main difference is that a DC-DC convertor can be capable of 'stepping up' a voltage, whereas a voltage regulator can only reduce the input voltage to a predetermined level. Also, in the minds of most engineers I know, 'voltage regulator' usually denotes an integrated linear device, while 'DC-DC convertor' denotes a switchmode, usually with much greater efficiency and power output. Midlandstoday 18:54, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I make that seven opposers and no supporters. Would the original proposer like to say whether he wants to maintain or withdraw his proposal? If I don't hear anything, I will archive this discussion per WP:MERGE and remove the tags. --Heron 20:14, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm the original proposer.

It would be nice if there were a clean hierarchy, but what I'm currently seeing is that

voltage regulator, power conversion, and DC to DC converter all claim to be the root article, and the other things are a subset. Each of those articles has a discussion of "switched" vs. "linear".

Also, switched-mode power supply and DC to DC converter both claim to include each other.

Heron has convinced me that, once the difference between "linear" and "switching" is covered in some overview article, rather than repeated in every related article, there will be no need to merge.

So is power conversion the best place for an overview and the "linear" vs. "switching" discussion? (All the other pages would then merely refer to that overview, rather than discuss it yet again).

--76.209.28.72 01:29, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

You have certainly identified a problem, both of duplication and of articles with unclear scope. I like your latest scheme. Here are some more observations:

• Power conversion does seem like a good candidate for the most general article. Its first problem, though, is that it starts with a digression into non-electrical meanings, which invites people to add all sorts of other guff that we don't want. How about renaming it to Electrical power conversion to prevent that?
• Voltage regulator is too broad a term. How about turning this article into just a list of links to the specific types, some of which already have their own articles? This would be a big job, though.

--Heron 20:44, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. Voltage regulator can be done in several ways. It's generic. Linear regulation and switchmode regulation is completly different animals. It's all about "electrical power conversion" that can be done in linear or switchmode way. And be regulated or unregulated. Ie four cases. Add to that you can also combine them should you wish.. Electron9 13:20, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Voltage arrow directions in diagrams

The arrows representing voltages in the diagrams in the sections Voltage regulator#Transistor regulator and Voltage regulator#Regulator with an operational amplifier seem to be reversed. I think that the arrow-head should point towards the positive terminal of the voltage represented. I would like to reverse the directions of the blue arrows in both of the diagrams. The images are SVG so this shouldn't be too difficult to do. This isn't some new convention for representing voltages with which I am unfamiliar, is it? --Nigelj (talk) 22:20, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Dropout voltage merge proposal

Dropout voltage does not appear to be a significant enough topic for a stand-alone article. I propose using the material in Dropout voltage to improve the Voltage regulator#Dropout voltage paragraph in this article and then redirect Dropout voltage to Voltage regulator#Dropout voltage. ~Kvng (talk) 15:39, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

There was nothing referenced here anyway and the paragraph at Voltage regulator gives the definition well enough, so I've changed this to a redirect.--Wtshymanski (talk) 00:32, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

"Phase" not described

I came here to found out what is meant by a 1-, 2- and 6-phase voltage regulator. The article mentions "single--phase" and has a picture of a "3-phase" voltage regulator but does not describe what is meant by the term "phase". If someone knowledgeable could add information about what exactly is meant by "phase" and what the difference is between single and multi-phase voltage regulators, that would be great! 134.191.220.73 (talk) 08:06, 24 May 2019 (UTC)