Talk:New Zealand Sevens (tournament)

Not the 2008 event

This article should be about the Wellington Sevens in general, a list of winners, etc, not just about the 2008 event. Greenman (talk) 09:37, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Requested move 22 May 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. This may be worth relisting at a later date if the name is made official in 2018. (non-admin closure) —Guanaco 09:45, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

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Wellington Sevens → New Zealand Sevens – This is as starting from 2018, it will be moved to Hamilton next year with this article being one of the links. [1] Matt294069 is coming 02:08, 22 May 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. Cúchullain ^t/c 14:26, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Support as per nom. It just makes logical sense. -- Ham105 (talk) 02:31, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Support as the current name won't do for much longer. Schwede66 09:03, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Support per nom. The event is confirmed for Hamilton in 2019 as well, and possibly future years. — Dale Arnett (talk) 06:24, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

• Relisting comment New Zealand Sevens is currently a redirect to New Zealand national rugby sevens team, which seems to be the more prominent article in general.[2] There needs to be discussion on whether the present article is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:26, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

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Still Support. While Cúchullain is right to ask about WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, the pageview data is not conclusive. For instance, this sample [3] taken as a head-to-head comparison three months ago would show the Wellington Sevens tournament page as more prominent. Note also that this analysis contains four times as much data as the example linked by Cúchullain above.

There is no clear primary topic in this case. The tournament is referred to as the New Zealand Sevens in news media: [4], [5], [6], [7] The team is often referred to as the All Blacks Sevens: [8],[9], [10], [11]; the official name bestowed by New Zealand Rugby.

The way to handle the disambiguation in this case is to employ the same method already being used for the similarly named articles such as South Africa Sevens, France Sevens, Canada Sevens, Scotland Sevens, Japan Sevens and so on. Move the tournament page as per nom and use a hatnote, e.g.:

• Not to be confused with New Zealand national rugby sevens team, or
• This page is about the men's national rugby sevens team. For the tournament, see New Zealand Sevens, or similar.

This will maintain a consistent approach for all these pages. Editors Matt294069, Schwede and Dale Arnett are all regular contributors to rugby topics and will be familiar with this convention. -- Ham105 (talk) 22:59, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

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Comment: this article shouldn't be moved to "New Zealand Sevens" unless it's the primary topic of the name. If the other article is primary, things should stay as they are for the other article, with this one moved to New Zealand Sevens (tournament) or similar. It all depends on which is more prominent in reliable sources for topics named "New Zealand Sevens". If there is no clear primary topic, then there should be a dab page at the base name.--Cúchullain ^t/c 23:13, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

• Rebuttal comment: Take a look at New York, as an example. The page is about NY state, not the city. However, New York state is not the primary topic for the name "New York" and yet the article has that name. Refer to the archived discussions, starting with Talk:New York (state)/Archive 1 and Talk:New York City/Archive 2. The position reached there still struck a balance for common language terms in each case – WP:NCDAB, but the idea is to improve the encyclopedia rather than blindly quoting rules per WP:FATRAT, seeking to trump consensus. Same in this case with no primary topic. -- Ham105 (talk) 00:30, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

New York is a pretty atypical example and not terribly relevant here. Neither of these topic have the significance of either New York state or New York City.--Cúchullain ^t/c 03:33, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Ham105's argument and my support stands. Schwede66 19:03, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm going to formally oppose this per Amakuru's comments below. No evidence has been presented that this is the primary topic of the term "New Zealand Sevens", and page views and cursory searches at Google News suggest that the national sevens team is the more prominent topic.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:24, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

New York is not a stable counter-example. Several editors feel that the current treatment is incorrect and are preparing Talk:New York/Proposed move to remove the title New York from a non-primary topic (the state). Unless it's a special case for some reason, New Zealand Sevens should lead to its primary topic if any, or a dab page if none. Certes (talk) 09:27, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Comment As the person who put it up, if the event did stay in Wellington next year then we wouldn't have this discussion and it would be like the London Sevens as it has stayed at the venue. With this change, this won't be the case and if I didn't create it when I saw the news article then someone evenly create this discussion we are having. And of course because I created this I will go Support Matt294069 is coming 03:06, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Support, per one of the only two references on this page - [12] Mattlore (talk) 04:04, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

support Surely the two equivalent articles are: South Africa Sevens and USA Sevens which in both cases relate the World Series stops in those countries which have been played in multiple cities. Skeene88 (talk) 18:34, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose per Cuchullain. Search results all pertain to the NZ national sevens team, and there has been no evidence presented that this is the primary topic for the term, given the higher page views for the national team.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:23, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Can't put it better than Amakuru and Cuchullain. Andrewa (talk) 05:07, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose for now due to inadequate nomination statement. If true, it should be renamed, but the case for the proposed name has not been made.
  I suggest "New Zealand Sevens tournament", or New Zealand Sevens (rugby tournament). --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:46, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

New York as an example

Citing New York as an example was perhaps unfortunate, as there is no consensus that the current situation there is correct, and one of the closing panel of three at the last RM assessed consensus to move [13] (the others assessing no consensus either way).

Ham105 and/or any others interested, I'm very interested in any other examples. Or is New York the only one? Andrewa (talk) 02:22, 20 June 2017 (UTC)