Talk:White gods

Is the term actually used?

I just did a quick google scholar search, which I realize is not the be all and end all, and have not found any references to this term (used in the context described in the article). Dbrodbeck (talk) 12:43, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

From google scholar you get:

Link by C Townsend - The American Historical Review "Burying the White Gods: New Perspectives on the Conquest of Mexico".

Michael Shermer also claims the ideas are based on psuedoscience see The Skeptic: encyclopedia of Pseudoscience, "white god legends", Michael Shermer, ABC-CLIO, 2002

Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke mentions White Gods in many of his books and how Atlantis and White Supremacists have used it.

Donald Mackenzie an expert on mythology, has written about White Gods

Liveintheforests (talk) 14:22, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

After looking through the first article, it does not seem to be using the term in the way the article does. It is (clearly) though using the term as a reference to the idea that the white men were seen as gods (and the debunking of that notion). I mean more in the context of the 'ancient visitors' kind of thing. Dbrodbeck (talk) 14:33, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

There is a group of books which contain many references in ancient literature for "White Gods" visiting South America, i do not own these books but my brother has lent me them, so i will read over them tonight and search for any references. Liveintheforests (talk) 15:55, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

This book has many references in it it's been removed from the article but i will have to look through this book more, im sure he has many ancient texts quoted [1] Terry J. O'Brien, Fair Gods and Feathered Serpents: A Search for Ancient America's Bearded White God, 1997, See Chapter 6 pp. 95 - 111

Furneaux is not 'authors', what does he actually say? Dougweller (talk) 16:39, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

As for ancient texts, you can't interpret those yourself, you need to find sources. Dougweller (talk) 16:43, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Please see here The Bearded White Gods of Ancient America Liveintheforests (talk) 17:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Which is one reason why it's such a dreadful book - the things he says about Quatzalcoatl simply aren't accurate (nor is the implicit idea that North or South American Indians were hairless). Even other Mormons think it's rubbish. [2] Dougweller (talk) 17:32, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

What is the mainstream view of Quatzalcoatl then? What is the mainstream view of his race? Every person i have spoken to has told me that Quatzalcoatl was light skinned and that is what many references say. Liveintheforests (talk) 17:39, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I think you may be confused. He wasn't a human being. He was associated with the colour white, sure. He was one of the four aspects of the god Tezcatlipoca - others were blue, red and black. 'Race' doesn't come into it at all. More than one researcher not interested in the facts has confused him with Ce Acatl Topiltzin, who may or may not have been real. See [3]. Dougweller (talk) 19:29, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Like all the legends of the White Gods, the people didn't just make up Quatzalcoatl, we need to ask ourselves what are the legends etc etc really based on. We are left with various clues, it could of been a real human being or a group of people, such as europeans visiting those areas, and the people who wrote it all down concluding that the human/s were actually God/s. Or could have been an extraterrestrial who they believed was a God. I know these ideas seem fringe, but they are not impossible and they are valid interpretations. Liveintheforests (talk) 19:51, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Are you saying all legends of gods were about aliens? If not, you seem to be just picking the ideas you like. No, they are not valid interpretations by any reasonable meaning of the word valid, they are wild speculation based on ignorance of the legends. Or possibly a pov that your god is the only real god thus the others must be based on something else. Dougweller (talk) 20:38, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes doug as an ancient astronaut believer i do believe pretty much believe all the so called "Gods" were extraterrestrials, this does not mean all the "Gods" around the word were White, theres red, greys, brown, green etc, but Nordic aliens have been most reported. Liveintheforests (talk) 21:04, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

yeah, the problem is that "as an ancient astronaut believer" you should not be editing Wikipedia.

any topic can be turned into a debunking-party if one decides to focus on the cranky literature. There are some limited historical (16th-century) accounts of Spaniards being seen as "gods" on their first meeting with people in the New World. I am sure the notion dissipated very quickly, but this was in like the first ten minutes of meeting the conquistadores. So, the article can be about such historical evidence as there is for this effect, or it can be about confused, cranky, strange or plain evil people who made up completely insane things about "white gods". The question is which avenue is more encyclopedic under this title. --dab (𒁳) 11:19, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Other wikipedia articles on the subject have sources that clearly debunk this myth that indigenous Americans believed Europeans were gods. These baseless claims with racist undertones were made up by Europeans a century after the events for self aggrandizing purposes and don't merit an encyclopedic article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.170.192.109 (talk) 11:01, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Misrepresentations

The article is a conglomerate of things taken out of context. First I want to draw attention to Talk:Viracocha#I'm calling bs.. That the Spanish have had a sense of "whiteness" is unrealistic. The sentence which sates that Spanish chroniclers from the 16th century claimed that when the conquistadors led by Francisco Pizarro first encountered the Incas, they were greeted as gods, "Viracochas", because their lighter skin resembled their god named Viracocha. is not covered by the source. It's written there that the Incas thought that the Spanish are "Viracochas" because Viracocha "promised [...] he was coming" (returning) and not because of their skin color. Also from a logical point of view: Why would they? The Incas did not consider Viracocha to be white.

I also doubt that Pedro Cieza de León (known for his great objectivity) ever claimed Viracocha to be white. All sources I read it is said that he reported Viracocha to be bearded and not be white. This doesn't make any sense anyway because the concept of whiteness was not very wide spread in colonial times. JonskiC (talk) 20:52, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Hinduism?

I've reverted this added by User talk:Hindustanilanguage According to mythologist and author Dev Dutt: {{Quote|Colors convey deeper truths. On the body of the Goddess, black is about wild nature. On the body of God, black is about worldliness. On the body of the Goddess, white is about domestic culture. On the body of God, white is about ascetic transcendence. Besides getting the author's name wrong, it's not clear from the quote if Shiva is a white god. In fact, it does seem that he is usually depicted as white from the ashes of corpses with a blue neck. Not my favorite source, but see [4]

References

Doug Weller talk 10:17, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Anyway this is a major misunderstanding of the article. The lead makes it clear what the topic is "White gods is the pseudoscientific belief that ancient cultures around the world were visited by white races in ancient times, and that they were known as "white gods"." Doug Weller talk 16:02, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

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