Talk:Who Killed the Zutons?

Fair use rationale for Image:Who Killed The Zutons.jpg

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BetacommandBot 04:59, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Questionable question mark

Whilst the title of this article has been given a very specific number of dots (6), which is correct, it has a question mark at the end that surely shouldn't be there. Yes, I know that who.. is in the form of a question, but the question mark simply isn't in the title of the album, so the article shouldn't have one either should it? nagualdesign (talk) 05:57, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Requested move 8 May 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Who Killed the Zutons?. I see a consensus that the existing title, with a six-dot ellipsis, is not aligned with the MOS. Of the various titles proposed, I also read the discussion as finding consensus that "Who Killed the Zutons?" is the WP:COMMONNAME, with various sources either capitalizing or lowercasing "the"; within that paradigm, it was also noted that the MOS prefers the lowercase "the". (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:19, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

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Who Killed...... The Zutons? → Who Killed the Zutons? – or Who Killed the Zutons (without the question mark) – or Who Killed ... the Zutons? – or Who Killed ... the Zutons (without the question mark). This is the only article title I can find on Wikipedia that includes more than five consecutive dots in its title (and I found only four that have five consecutive dots). That's a rather strange form, and it is not supported consistently in the cited sources. Although the album cover does include six dots, most of the cited sources appear to just use "Who Killed the Zutons?" (or "Who Killed The Zutons?", which Wikipedia would not do), with or without the question mark at the end. Some use an ordinary three-dot ellipsis (with or without spaces around the ellipsis). Also, as pointed out in 2012 by nagualdesign, the album cover and many sources omit the question mark. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.  ASUKITE 20:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 22:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Who Killed the Zutons?

Points of information:

• The version on The Zutons' official website has the 6 dots and a question mark. WP:ABOUTSELF?
• Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles of works#Typographic effects says: "Do not attempt (with HTML, Unicode, wikimarkup, inline images, or any other method) to emulate any purely typographic effects used in titles when giving the title in Wikipedia, though an article on a work may also include a note about how it is often styled, e.g. in marketing materials."
• MOS:ELLIPSIS: "Wikipedia's style for an ellipsis is three unspaced dots; do not use the precomposed ellipsis character or three dots separated by spaces."
• Spotify and Amazon digital music have "Who Killed The Zutons?" I was thinking these might be a version of "the work as a reliable source on itself", like liner notes, in a digital age, but...
• ...Apple Music has "Who Killed the Zutons?", which is more in keeping with Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Album article style advice#"The"

Rationale:

• I suspect there is no single correct answer. My preference is for "Who Killed the Zutons?" on the basis that:
  • in 2024, regardless of reviews from years ago, a case can be made that the name on streaming services is the WP:COMMONNAME, and none of them use ellipses
  • this is ok by Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles of works#Typographic effects
  • this is also ok by Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Album article style advice#"The"
  • WP:CRITERIA for naturalness and concision

Jonathan Deamer (talk) 18:36, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I'll support Who Killed the Zutons?, based on the MOS & WP:CRITERIA, and will also support Who Killed ... the Zutons? if that gains traction (anytime we see conflicting standards it can be tricky to pick which one, so I don't want to exclude the more consistent punctuation if anybody feels the stylization is necessary, however I generally lean away from stylizing our titles when possible) ASUKITE 20:05, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Alternative music and WikiProject Albums have been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 20:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose based on the arguments presented. Specicially, points 2 and 3 are not even relevant. Gonnym (talk) 07:44, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.