Talk:Winter of 2009–10 in Great Britain and Ireland

Merge with February 2009 Great Britain and Ireland snowfall

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

• Oppose - It's a terrible idea which will cause no end of confusion. The February snowfall occurred in the Winter 2008-2009 season. TheRetroGuy (talk) 13:13, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Closed as makes no sense, two articles cover different time periods, in different seasons. 76.66.197.17 (talk) 08:04, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merge with European winter storms of 2009–2010

On the other hand, a merge (or rather a re-merge) with European winter storms of 2009–2010 is probably a much better solution as this is the article it was split from. Once the present winter storms are over we'll have a much better chance of being able to put it all into perspective. TheRetroGuy (talk) 13:21, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

This shouldn't have been split without re-scoping the original article and removing the duplicated material. There is still far more detail in the original article. This article should be merged back. Much of the original article is UK-related anyway. Halsteadk (talk) 15:01, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

In the UK at least this prolonged weather pattern is not recognised as a storm. Technically it might be a storm (that's debatable) but it has not been described as such in the media. Leaky Caldron 15:07, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. I'd like a merge with the European article, but I don't think that either article has an appropriate title at the moment. JH (talk page) 18:21, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

BE CAREFUL: Some people might have already edited it :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.180.62.126 (talk) 04:05, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Wrong title

Title is wrong. These are not storms, it's an unusual weather pattern which has included a few storms, but mainly untypical sustained cold and heavy snowfallLeaky Caldron 16:38, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a suggestion on a new title? 76.66.197.17 (talk) 08:05, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

This set the precident: Winter of 1962–1963 in the United Kingdom. Leaky Caldron 10:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

It's not the whole of winter yet, that would be a WP:CBALL... What about Snowfall and coldwave of 2009–2010 in Great Britain and Ireland ? It can be renamed to Winter after winter is over, if it does cover most or all of this winter. 76.66.197.17 (talk) 19:30, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

"Cold wave" is an Americanism and not in normal use in the UK. (Though we happily use heatwave.) Also "cold wave" to me suggests an event lasting a week or two, rather than something that seems to be turning out to be much more prolonged. JH (talk page) 21:27, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

It occurred to me that if there's a heat wave then there must be a cold wave... I suppose you might characterize the weather as an arctic outflow event. 76.66.197.17 (talk) 13:57, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree with User:Leaky_caldron, the title should be Winter of 2009-2010 in the United Kingdom. This is per the precident Winter of 1946–1947 in the United Kingdom, and the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (country-specific topics). "Winter of" provides the neutrality, and although winters affect geographical territories, they are reported on a national basis, meaning economic factors, injuries etc will be published for the UK, not Great Britain and Ireland. --Jza84 |  Talk  14:27, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

What storms?

I do not think there have been any storms to speak of, just a lot of snow. I agree with Leaky Caldron above - the article title is wrong. 89.242.112.19 (talk) 18:14, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

There are things called snow storms, which means alot of snowfall... 76.66.197.17 (talk) 19:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

The problem is that "storm" covers all sorts of wintry and non-wintry weather. If the article has "storm" in the title then it could continue when we get back to the traditional gales and heavy rain - clearly that isn't relevant to the current weather. Halsteadk (talk) 20:58, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Article takes shape

Now that it's been expanded I quite like this article. There seems to be enough information for both this and the Europe one. At some point I'll add some more references, etc. TheRetroGuy (talk) 21:36, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Natural disaster?

I think it's an exaggeration to categorize this as a "natural disaster". Winters like this were common in the 1950s. Biscuittin (talk) 22:23, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I think it's just the name of the category, rather than calling this a "natural disaster". As you can see, I don't think there is anywhere in the article where it states it as a natural disaster (if there is, there shouldn't be). In my opinion the category would be better named as "natural hazard events", as few of the events in there are actually disasters. Jolly Ω Janner 22:36, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Fully agreed, there's a gross tendency to describe anything these days as a disaster. As an aside (and in case it comes up), the "disaster management" category is relevant however. Halsteadk (talk) 15:26, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Still notable?

OK, seeing what someone has added for 23rd January has made me think we've now reached the end of the timeline for this article. The conditions described are not unusual in any way. Halsteadk (talk) 13:55, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

As no-one has commented, I've deleted it. It's clearly not notable in itself, and there's no evidence that it is marking any sort of shift back to notable conditions so that's not grounds to keep it either. I would question 21st Jan too. Halsteadk (talk) 15:22, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

South East England February

Is this worth noting? here we can see that the heaviest snow of the season is being predicted here. 94.9.222.188 (talk) 17:16, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

It will be worth noting once it happens, if it does. An encyclopaedia isn't a newspaper, still less an almanack predicting the future. JH (talk page) 18:20, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks for clearing this up :) 94.9.222.188 (talk) 18:45, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Would it be worth noting now - or not because of how localised it is? 94.9.222.188 (talk) 18:48, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I think it probably would, though not everyone would necessarily agree. When it comes to notability, in marginal cases it comes down to a matter of opinion I think. JH (talk page) 09:56, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

It was sufficiently noteworthy to be reported, cause traffic problems and close schools, so I would think it worth mentioning. I would suggest where possible look to see if others consider it notable enough to talk about (apart from weather-related sites), rather than relying on opinion. It needs to also be verifiable so where it isn't reported it can't go in (I'm aware some edits were made based on weather forecasts which are not verifiable once the forecast is out of date and deleted). Halsteadk (talk) 13:36, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Still Going

As it is the "Winter of 2009-2010" the page should include cold and snowy periods after the main prolonged event. It is not a Snow event the Winter It's a Winter. So it should include snowfall after the 15th January. The BBC and Met Office would have good records of the Weather and the BBC WEATHER keep a review of the Weather each day and there you can get accurate information about the weather. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Qsdeas1 (talk • contribs) 14:24, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

So why don't you have a go at updating the article? A paragraph or two about this would probably be all right. As well as showers, etc we've had a couple of other snow events since 15 January. TheRetroGuy (talk) 22:24, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

If my memory serves me correctly, snow has fallen (in the Midlands at least) on 11 February, 18 February and 21 February. And then there's all that stuff in Scotland. TheRetroGuy (talk) 19:39, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Upload Picture of 25 Feb Snow

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8538197.stm I Can't upload a picture of the extreme sowfall in Scotland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Qsdeas1 (talk • contribs) 10:55, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I see you've made more than ten edits and been registered for longer than four days so you should be able to upload images. Check out this link for more details. A caution though, unless you own the copyright to that image or can get permission from the person who does then it will be deleted again. Cheers TheRetroGuy (talk) 19:34, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Snow in March

The following section was deleted as Winter has now officially ended and at the time of posting this there is no certainty about the notability of this event - it's bad in Scotland and Northern Ireland today, but the information only becomes notable if it were to continue for some time. Nonetheless I thought it might be useful to post the information here in case it is needed so that it is easier to locate again. Hope this is all right. Cheers. TheRetroGuy (talk) 12:06, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

It seems to be the lead story on radio and TV today, which is surely sufficient to imply that it's notable, Though winter has officially ended, I think it makes sense to include it in the article, The UK Met Office takes winter as the months of December, January and February, but the article on the winter of 1946-7 sensibly includes the severe conditions in the first two weeks of March, so there's a precedence. The weather doesn't always abide by the seasons as defined by meteorologists. JH (talk page) 17:14, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I've just watched the weather update on BBC News which says there's going to be a definite improvement in conditions, although a news report live from Scotland which followed on the 7pm bulletin has mentioned weather warnings for heavy snow over the Highlands and North Eastern Scotland for tomorrow. I mention below that we should consider including it if the snow continues into the weekend, but having said that it has been the major news story today - there's been power blackouts in Northern Ireland, some sport fixture cancellations, and of course the tragic bus crash in Scotland. This all might be enough to make it notable and worth adding, but I'm not really sure. TheRetroGuy (talk) 18:09, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

30-31 March

As the Spring arrived and the weather appeared to be getting warmer the snow and low temperatures returned to large parts of Wales, Scotland and northern England.

The worst affected areas were in Scotland, particularly the Highlands of Scotland where many roads were blocked by drifting snow. This has been the worst winter for over 30 years.

General references

Some news stories from today in case we need to create a new section for the latest round of extreme weather. TheRetroGuy (talk) 12:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

31 March

• "Colder than Moscow: Thousands of homes without power and drivers stranded as Britain is battered by blizzards and gale-force winds". Mail Onlien. 31 March 2010. Retrieved 31 March 2010.
• "Trapped motorists in Northern Ireland rescued from snow". BBC News. 31 March 2010. Retrieved 31 March 2010.
• "Girl killed in school coach crash as heavy snow hits UK". BBC News. 31 March 2010. Retrieved 31 March 2010.
• "Heavy snow creates travel chaos across Scotland". BBC News. 31 March 2010. Retrieved 31 March 2010.
• "Motorists rescued from snow as winter storms batter Britain". Daily Telegraph. 31 March 2010. Retrieved 31 March 2010.
• "Goodbye March: severe weather updates". The Guardian. 31 March 2010. Retrieved 31 March 2010.

1 April

• "Snow strands passengers on train near Inverness". BBC News. 1 April 2010. Retrieved 1 April 2010.
• "Scores trapped on snowbound train in Scotland". The Guardian. 1 April 200. Retrieved 1 April 2010.
• Sweeney, Charlene (1 April 2010). "More than 100 passengers stranded overnight as train hits snowdrift". Retrieved 1 April 2010. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |publsher= ignored (|publisher= suggested) (help)
• "Thousands without power overnight". BBC News. 1 April 2010. Retrieved 1 April 2010.

Another 31 March section

31 March

Widespread snow in Scotland and parts of Ireland and England.[1]

Comments

Let's think about adding this if the weather continues into the weekend. TheRetroGuy (talk) 16:14, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

More precision needed

From the lead section: "Overall it was the coldest winter since 1978/79 with a mean temperature of 1.5 °C (34.7 °F)." That temperature isn't very meaningful if it doesn't say for where it applies. I'm guessing that it's the Central England Temperature, in which case it should say so. JH (talk page) 20:50, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Ireland

There are several mentions in the text of events in the Republic of Ireland, for example in the entry for 4 January

In its monthly summary, Met Eireann, Ireland's weather service, said December was the coldest month for 28 years for most of the country and the coldest of any month since February 1986 at a few stations.

Should those really be here, given that the article is specifically about the UK? If it were "Britain and Ireland", or that dread phrase "the British Isles" then there'd be no problem, but the above quote clearly does not refer to the UK. Loganberry (Talk) 01:47, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

little mentioned about ireland

They needs to be more info about Ireland after all it says great britain and Ireland. --213.94.234.143 (talk) 21:07, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Where it didn't snow

Throughout this entire cold spell (as well as the rest of the winter and like most winters), there was no snowfall at all (not even light flurries) in the Plymouth-Saltash area around the River Tamar estuary. Despite being ringed by heavily snowed-covered higher ground and moors that covered the rest of Devon and Cornwall, it remained entirely snow free in the area that ran in an approximate 12 mile wide ellipse from the A38 Saltash to Trerulefoot, down to Looe and along to Torpoint, Plympton, and across Mutley Plain in Plymouth. The south-westerlies that blow along the river is the main reason for this - losing its warming effect quite dramatically at around 150m elevation. HMNB Devonport, the largest naval base in western Europe, is handily situated in this sheltered anchorage.

If I can pull some weather data and check this anomaly (especially against other areas that are traditionally milder, such as Torbay aka The English Riviera - which one might have expected to remain snow-free but didn't), is this worth a couple of lines mention? Its just a) I was there atthe time and b) on the satellite photo of the snow covered British Isles, the Plymouth area is just visibly snow-free. Plutonium27 (talk) 23:42, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. MikeLynch (talk) 19:42, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

---

Winter of 2009–2010 in the United Kingdom → Winter of 2009–2010 in Great Britain and Ireland –

• (1) This concerns Ireland too, particularly the sport section, and is included as part of WikiProject Ireland.
• (2) Weather does not recognise political boundaries - the freeze did not stop before reaching Louth or Donegal, which are not, politically speaking, in the United Kingdom.
• (3) The move would give the page a similar title to other weather-related articles such as Winter of 2010–2011 in Great Britain and Ireland and February 2009 Great Britain and Ireland snowfall. 86.40.99.24 (talk) 01:46, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

• Comment Winter of 2009–2010 in the British Isles ? -- 70.24.247.127 (talk) 05:39, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Er, no. Don't think so. See BDD below. --86.40.98.64 (talk) 04:55, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

• I'd be in favour of the suggested move. JH (talk page) 09:48, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
• Support There isn't much in the article dealing with Ireland, but it's possible editors have hesitated to add such information since it seems outside the scope, given the current name. British Isles would open up a can of worms and should be avoided. --BDD (talk) 17:55, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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