Talk:Young Blood (The Coasters song)

I Saw Her Standing There comparison

Is this section particularly relevant? It feels like it's reaching for something that isn't really there. I vote it gets excised. Theamazingzeno 18:57, 17 August 2007 (UTC) 18:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Consistency of category use

"Young Blood" is a song that George Martin has produced, and it is a Beatles song. For similar comparisons (with other songs that were not written by members of The Beatles), consider the articles for the following songs: "Boys", "A Taste of Honey", "Act Naturally", "Mr. Moonlight", "Matchbox", "Till There Was You", "Anna (Go to Him)", "Chains", "Dizzy Miss Lizzy", "Roll Over Beethoven", "Honey Don't", "You Really Got a Hold on Me".

All of the above articles contain the following categories:

• The Beatles songs
• Songs produced by George Martin

Zakko 01:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC) Zakko 01:40, 25 October 2006 (UTC) Zakko 01:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Check your album credits... the session for the "Young Blood" cover was produced by a Terry Henebery, NOT George Martin (who was merely executive producer of the compilation which included it). Plus there's the fact that every song you've just listed was included on one (or more) of their original albums or EPs. "Young Blood" plainly was not. Sorry... care to fix the listing yourself? Zephyrad 04:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

You acknowledge that George Martin was the executive producer, and please note the following comment: "This double album contains 56 songs made at BBC sessions, digitally remastered and compiled by George Martin, it IS an essential addition to the Beatles catalogue."[1] So, as well as compiling the tracks, Martin also handled the digital remastering production of songs that were in some cases of quite poor session recording quality. I think the second observation you are making is that the listed song articles are of songs included on albums and EPs that were released up to and including the release of The Beatles' Let It Be album. However, 'The Beatles songs' category is specifically with respect to recorded material ("Articles about songs recorded by the Beatles." - see Category:The Beatles songs) rather than criteria involving the dates of release of the recorded material; and The Beatles recorded "Young Blood" in June 1963. Here are some further examples of articles regarding songs recorded by the Beatles and not penned by members of The Beatles: "Bésame Mucho", "I Got a Woman", "Johnny B. Goode". All of these song articles include 'The Beatles songs' category tag, and each of these songs recorded by The Beatles remained unreleased (on their singles, albums and EPs) until it was included on either their Anthology 1 or Live at the BBC album. Zakko 14:08, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I never disacknowledged Martin's role... as executive producer of the project, which he oversaw. (To some extent, "executive producer" is merely a courtesy title, on many such projects.) However, you have still not acknowledged Terry Henebery's role as producer of the original recording. As a producer and engineer myself, I do not need an explanation of digital remastering or its role, nor of the fact that the recordings compiled for the project were sometimes of inferior quality; this matter is irrelevant. The examples you cite this time are also irrelevant; none of them has the infobox you have added to this article (even if they did, the songs still did not originate with the Beatles, so the boxes would likewise be out of place), each appeared (as you have said) in the Anthology series... and each indeed was produced by Martin. The recording in question, again, was not. You have still not proven your point, and you seem to be under the impression that Martin personally remastered each of the Live at the BBC recordings. This is an engineer's job, not a producer's, and to thus call him the "producer" of the recording is no more accurate than to say he played or sang on it. Your phrase "of quite poor session recording quality" is also inaccurate; the lesser quality of some recordings in the project was not the fault of the session personnel, or the studio where they were recorded. Many of them were taken from dubs, or off-air recordings, because that was all that still existed. I will ask you once again to correct your work. Zephyrad 23:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, with regard to the infobox, you will see that I have not, as yet, reinstated the infobox that you removed. For clarification I may re-work the layout of the article and discuss the subject of infoboxes later, but for the moment the current discussion is with respect to the following category tags:

• Songs produced by George Martin
• The Beatles songs

and both of these tags are valid for this song.

A song can have more than one producer and, as you have confirmed again, Martin was the executive producer - so the former category tag is appropriate. However, we are agreed that Terry Henebery was the initial producer, and for now - pending its possible usage in other Live at the BBC song articles - I will remove the 'Songs produced by George Martin' tag from this article in line with the personal preference that you have expressed. Incidentally, I did not, as you now seem to be suggesting, comment that the quality was the fault of the session personnel. However, I think we are in agreement that the initial recording quality was quite poor in some cases.

With regard to the further song examples I quoted, please note that I did not, as you have erroneously claimed, state that each of the songs appeared in the Anthology series. I actually stated that "each of these songs recorded by The Beatles remained unreleased (on their singles, albums and EPs) until it was included on either [added emphasis] their Anthology 1 or Live at the BBC album." While "Bésame Mucho" is a song on the Anthology 1 album, "I Got a Woman" and "Johnny B. Goode" are songs on the Live at the BBC album. So, in summary, "Young Blood", "I Got a Woman" and "Johnny B. Goode" are not on the Anthology albums; all three of those songs are featured on the Live at the BBC album.

'The Beatles songs' category has the following description:

• Articles about songs recorded by the Beatles. (see Category:The Beatles songs)

This category tag is valid for "Young Blood" and the aforementioned songs "Bésame Mucho", "I Got a Woman" and "Johnny B. Goode", which also include 'The Beatles songs' category tag in their current articles. Zakko 02:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll concede my mistake on the latter two songs; I didn't have my copy of Anthology 1 handy. The "Beatles songs" category might work, although on its own it appears to be misleading; maybe a better one would be "Songs performed by The Beatles", but that would be up to a much larger debate. The "George Martin" category is not a personal preference; it's a matter of technical accuracy. As to the infobox matter... maybe what's needed is a set of Coasters infoboxes (which I'm tempted to look into), for their songs. I think such boxes ought to be limited to songs either originating with artists, or that they had notable hits with... but that is IMO, at least at this point. As to the recording quality... having heard some of the bootleg versions of those BBC recordings, I can only imagine what they sometimes had to work with, compiling that project. (And it is unfortunate that the recording of the Quarry Men set from the day Lennon and McCartney met wasn't suitable to also be cleaned up and released in some form. Even a bad version would still make interesting listening.)

I did note your edit to my user page and its revert (with apology); that and a glance at your own user page show what looks like an honest mistake (= you meant to edit your own user page, but were looking at mine), so I see no need to take action. Anyway, happy editing. Zephyrad 04:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments. I think we are agreed that a category heading such as 'Songs performed by The Beatles' or 'Songs recorded by The Beatles' would, in some cases, be more accurate than the current 'The Beatles songs' category heading. However, that could be a much larger debate, as you mentioned; 'The Beatles songs' is shorter and there are many similar headings such as 'The Rolling Stones songs' and 'Elvis Presley songs' currently in use, which would need to be considered in a full debate.

Just to clarify, the relevant point about the 'Songs produced by George Martin' category is, and I think we are fully agreed on this point, Martin was the executive producer and he certainly did produce in the sense that the album exists (i.e. it has been produced). In the infobox in the Live at the BBC article, George Martin is the only entry in the category 'Producer(s)' - so the contributor who entered that infobox information must be of the opinion that the information is correct; for complete accuracy the other producers would also need to be included in that infobox. You commented that Martin "oversaw" the project, so that suggests that you consider that he was not a 'silent' partner in the project. Referring to the following cached link, [2], the initial producers (Terry Henebery in the case of "Young Blood", Bernie Andrews for "I'll Follow the Sun", etc.) may have been radio show producers, essentially responsible for the broadcasted show (Pop Go the Beatles, Top Gear, etc.) so I wonder how much part they and Martin each played in respect of the finalised tidied versions as we now hear them on the Live at the BBC album. In any case, it may be that the 'Songs produced by ...' categories' descriptions could be modified for clarity, but again this would probably be subject to a much wider debate.

A Coasters infobox would certainly be useful, and there are some possible justifications for using more than one infobox in a song article. In terms of some current song article examples:

• "Twist and Shout" currently contains an Isley Brothers infobox and a Beatles song infobox;
• a non-Beatles example, "I Will Always Love You", originally recorded by Dolly Parton, contains both a Dolly Parton and a Whitney Houston infobox.

Once again it can lead into a larger debate still. I like the very convenient facility of being able to click through the songs on an album by using the 'previous' and 'next' links at the bottom of the song infoboxes. For example, the song articles based on the tracks on the Please Please Me album are presented perfectly in this respect: the reader can start with the album's first song article, "I Saw Her Standing There", and click the infobox links one after another ultimately reaching the fourteenth (final) song, "Twist and Shout". This is not currently possible with the Live at the BBC song articles.

I agree with you regarding your comments on the quality of the recordings available for the 'Live at the BBC' project. I expect those early Quarry Men recordings (from the day Lennon and McCartney first met) will see the light of day eventually; and I am certainly in full agreement that even a poor quality version would be interesting.

Thank you for your good wishes. I hope you also enjoy your Wikipedia editing. Zakko 21:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Original research using primary sources

I just removed a reference because it ammounted to original research. The claim is that tribute bands do covers of the beatles version of Young Blood. I don't doubt this. But to back up the claim the eidtor cited a beatles tribute band'sbooking site that listed the Beatles version of Young Blood as something they play. While this seems reasonable on the surface, the relaible sources policy cautions against useing primary sources in this sort of situation for good reason.

As an encyclopedia, the fact that one band may have done this is rarely relevent. We should normally only be mentioning things that are significant, meaning thay are impactful across a reasonably large number of relevent subjects. To provide verification for a statement like this we need a reference from a secondary source who has made this analysis. --Siobhan Hansa 04:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Minor key? sounds like major to me

The bass line is certainly a major progression and I can't find any other place on the net that shows it as a minor progression. Does anyone have a source for claiming that it is a minor/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by DruidZ (talk • contribs) 23:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

It certainly is a major key blues progression. As recorded by the Coasters, B flat. Similarly Leon Russell's cover of it, also in B flat major. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.202.64.123 (talk) 20:58, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll third this proposition - the Db in the riff that would make it Bbm is only used melodically and goes immediately up to D-natural - it's definitely: Bb7 Bb7 Bb7 Bb7 Bb7 Bb7 stop time Eb7 Eb7 Bb7 Bb7 Eb7 Eb7 F7 F7 (and it's F7#9! the goofy presentation masks a very hip song)

there's also a great bridge: Eb7 (D) Eb7 Ab7 Ab7 (this whole bridge would be an "I've Got Rhythm bridge" but it's all up a half step - very slick) Db7 (C) Db7 Gb7 F7 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevintimba (talk • contribs) 09:00, 7 September 2019 (UTC)