Template:Did you know nominations/Hors d'oeuvre

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Jolly Ω Janner 04:52, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Hors d'oeuvre

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Hors d'oeuvre

... ~~that hors d'oeuvre served on a table may be referred to as buffet-style, while those provided by servers may be called butler-style or butlered?~~

Reviewed: Steven Anzovin

5x expanded by Checkingfax, Mark Miller, Nvvchar and Northamerica1000. Nominated by Northamerica1000 (talk) at 05:07, 23 December 2015 (UTC).

The phrase "table hors d'oeuvre" doesn't appear in the supplied source so I deleted it in the hook in order to pass it. Article is well over a x5 expansion, is newly expanded and passed a spot check for copyvio. Article is properly cited and sourced, hook is acceptable. Passed. I am moving this to the Christmas section as an auxiliary hook if we don't get enough outright Christmas hooks, as I think the topic has some relevance. Gatoclass (talk) 11:06, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

@Gatoclass:, thanks to your APB, we have full sets for both days of Christmas. Returning this hook to December 19 noms area. Yoninah (talk) 15:40, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Actually, we are still one hook short, so would you mind moving this one back again? Gatoclass (talk) 16:42, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

ALT1: ... that hors d'oeuvres originated in 17th century France and were originally set outside the main work of symmetrically placed meal plates in front of the dinner guest?

I am concerned that the first hook is factually inaccurate as written. Hors d'oeuvres, served at a table are just hors d'oeuvres. It is when served on a tray at a table in a cocktail party that they may be called Buffet style. Also, if we are discussing the butler style tray, adding that hors d'oeuvre served this was are often called canapés might be of interest.Mark Miller (talk) 19:15, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Also the first hook is misspelled. In English the plural spelling uses the s.Mark Miller (talk) 19:18, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

One last thing and I'll leave this up to others but, as an experienced food server at a fine dining restaurant, butler style service is not just serving hors d'oeuvres. It may be part of the style of service but is actually a type of service similar to silver service but allows the guest to use place the food on the plate themselves.[1]. I suggest changing to ".....while those provided by servers are part of butler-style service or butlered"Mark Miller (talk) 19:31, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

@Mark Miller: This source used in the article states, "In butler-style service, the hors d'oeuvre selections are offered to guests by service staff carrying small trays..." and "In buffet-style service, hors d'oeuvres are arranged attractively on one or more tables, and guests help themselves." Regarding the term "butlered", this source used in the article states, "...passed, (called butlered) hors d'oeuvres..." Here's an alt below. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 19:29, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes, see how it is written in the first source. They are referring to a style of service that includes trays of hors d'oeuvres but is not limited to such. Butler style service is what you see in Downton Abbey where they trays of food are served with tongs that the guest uses to place the food on the plate themselves. Silver service is similar but the server places the prepared food, already on the plate on the table in a specific manner.Mark Miller (talk) 19:35, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

@Mark Miller: In the interest of being as accurate as possible, I have struck the initial hook in favor of ALT2 below. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:32, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

I think Alt2 is the better hook.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:03, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

I also prefer ALT2. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:13, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

ALT2: ... that hors d'oeuvre trays served on a table may be referred to as buffet-style, while those held and passed by servers are part of butler-style service or butlered hors d'oeuvres?

Steward serving canapés as part of butler style service

Possible alternate image:

I prefer the image atop with the close-up of the food. The butler-style service image at right highlights the server too much at DYK-size, imo. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:42, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

I agree.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:03, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

I was looking to promote this but wanted to check with @Mark Miller: if he thinks that ALT2 is ready for use? You have stated that you prefer it, but it is valid? Regards, Jolly Ω Janner 03:21, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi Jolly Janner: Below are sources used in the article that verify ALT2: ^[1], ^[2]. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:27, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

References

^ Gisslen, W.; Griffin, M.E.; Bleu, Le Cordon (2006). Professional Cooking for Canadian Chefs. John Wiley & Sons. p. 756. ISBN 978-0-471-66377-5. Retrieved 2015-12-27.
^ McCoy, D. (1993). For the Bride. JE House Pub. p. 156. ISBN 978-0-9638939-0-1. Retrieved 2015-12-27.

[1] Gisslen, W.; Griffin, M.E.; Bleu, Le Cordon (2006). Professional Cooking for Canadian Chefs. John Wiley & Sons. p. 756. ISBN 978-0-471-66377-5. Retrieved 2015-12-27.

[2] McCoy, D. (1993). For the Bride. JE House Pub. p. 156. ISBN 978-0-9638939-0-1. Retrieved 2015-12-27.

[1]

[2]