Template talk:Archival records
(Redirected from Template talk:Archival records/sandbox)
Latest comment: 3 months ago by Dorevabelfiore in topic Visible on mobile or Wikipedia app?
Use case
editWhat is the use case for this template? It currently feels like a bulky wrapper around what is usually displayed as a single external link. czar 03:36, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not the creator, but I think this is a very good thing. Archival collections are not just another external link but a valuable resource showing where the original sources of the article subject are located. - kosboot (talk) 11:11, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Czar, the use cases are found in Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Archival_records. Many casual readers have limited understanding of archival sources, so the template contextualises archival material and provides additional info on the external link like hosting institution and identifiers. Where institutional collections are mapped onto Wikidata, the template simplifies data maintenance by pulling directly from the Wikidata entry. Basically, the template makes it easier to use archival sources, not just link to them. Utl jung (talk) 22:06, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- I add external archive links to articles all the time so the importance isn't lost on me. It's just that this template currently only takes much of the same info I'd put in a single line and creates a rather large infobox. (In most of the biographies I spotchecked, it's bigger than the main infobox!) Now I could see using a template for some kind of inline callout and maybe a single help link for background on how to use archives, especially if the template would autopopulate from Wikidata like {{official website}}, but the links to encyclopedia articles on finding aid and EAD are not going to be helpful to those who don't already know what those are. The identifiers feel like overkill too. If they wouldn't normally go into the external link text or main infobox, I'd ask why it's important to the article. The link should be sufficient for identifying the archive, especially if in a standard format. czar 01:57, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Those who are even graduate students know that an archival collection is not just another link, but a link to primary source material, and thus is automatically more significant than most other links. How much more true is this for those who are researchers. Thus I think the template provides a helpful and noticeable alert while also performing a public service by having links for those who are not researchers and who normally do not consult primary sources. - kosboot (talk) 16:57, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I hear you, Czar, on the aesthetic bother. I understand and share your qualms around those limitations. Part of the difficulty here has been that—and I'm sure you've noticed these discussions—numerous en-wiki editors aren't keen on including archival information in the main infobox where, aesthetically, this info would be better placed (e.g. ca::Ludwig van Beethoven; see similarly WD-automated "Localització dels arxius"). The predominant reasoning there has been that the main infobox on en-wiki should only summarise article content, of which archival info is not considered part. This template was devised as a workaround to this inability to visually situate archival links as a separate layer of source through established templates (here I echo Kosboot's comments above), with the important added benefit of context like H:AR. "Good enough for now" is my suggestion considering present aesthetic limitations: they only manifest in the external links section, which comes at the end of an article. The template does not intrude on reading experience in the body of the article. And by feature of the sidebar wrapper for the template, it appears on desktop but not mobile, which I do not presently judge to be a problem given that users who benefit from this template are likely researching on a desktop browser. As for use cases in which this template appears outsized, that visual imbalance will slowly be remedied as those articles and their corresponding main infoboxes become more developed. I do not think these present limitations outweigh the benefits/integrity of visually separating and contextualising archives/primary source use, in a way that would suggest need for destructive changes. That said, this template is due for an update soon, so let me see how I can streamline the presentation while maintaining user-friendliness. I might axe the link to EAD after all, since H:AR already conveys that information. Based this and other helpful criticism, it may also be a consideration to develop this into a horizontal template which more intelligently + through Wikidata 1) manifests archival info in cases where more than one institution holds relevant archives; and 2) allows the user to navigate across the Wikipedia pages of figures/orgs held by an institution (this will probs need to be a separate template). Utl jung (talk) 18:52, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- I just came across this template for the first time. I share Czar's concern that it not be too visually prominent; something that displays inline as a bullet point might be fine. It's an interesting initiative, though, and templatizing this information seems like a reasonable thing to do. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} talk 07:38, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
- I hear you, Czar, on the aesthetic bother. I understand and share your qualms around those limitations. Part of the difficulty here has been that—and I'm sure you've noticed these discussions—numerous en-wiki editors aren't keen on including archival information in the main infobox where, aesthetically, this info would be better placed (e.g. ca::Ludwig van Beethoven; see similarly WD-automated "Localització dels arxius"). The predominant reasoning there has been that the main infobox on en-wiki should only summarise article content, of which archival info is not considered part. This template was devised as a workaround to this inability to visually situate archival links as a separate layer of source through established templates (here I echo Kosboot's comments above), with the important added benefit of context like H:AR. "Good enough for now" is my suggestion considering present aesthetic limitations: they only manifest in the external links section, which comes at the end of an article. The template does not intrude on reading experience in the body of the article. And by feature of the sidebar wrapper for the template, it appears on desktop but not mobile, which I do not presently judge to be a problem given that users who benefit from this template are likely researching on a desktop browser. As for use cases in which this template appears outsized, that visual imbalance will slowly be remedied as those articles and their corresponding main infoboxes become more developed. I do not think these present limitations outweigh the benefits/integrity of visually separating and contextualising archives/primary source use, in a way that would suggest need for destructive changes. That said, this template is due for an update soon, so let me see how I can streamline the presentation while maintaining user-friendliness. I might axe the link to EAD after all, since H:AR already conveys that information. Based this and other helpful criticism, it may also be a consideration to develop this into a horizontal template which more intelligently + through Wikidata 1) manifests archival info in cases where more than one institution holds relevant archives; and 2) allows the user to navigate across the Wikipedia pages of figures/orgs held by an institution (this will probs need to be a separate template). Utl jung (talk) 18:52, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Those who are even graduate students know that an archival collection is not just another link, but a link to primary source material, and thus is automatically more significant than most other links. How much more true is this for those who are researchers. Thus I think the template provides a helpful and noticeable alert while also performing a public service by having links for those who are not researchers and who normally do not consult primary sources. - kosboot (talk) 16:57, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I add external archive links to articles all the time so the importance isn't lost on me. It's just that this template currently only takes much of the same info I'd put in a single line and creates a rather large infobox. (In most of the biographies I spotchecked, it's bigger than the main infobox!) Now I could see using a template for some kind of inline callout and maybe a single help link for background on how to use archives, especially if the template would autopopulate from Wikidata like {{official website}}, but the links to encyclopedia articles on finding aid and EAD are not going to be helpful to those who don't already know what those are. The identifiers feel like overkill too. If they wouldn't normally go into the external link text or main infobox, I'd ask why it's important to the article. The link should be sufficient for identifying the archive, especially if in a standard format. czar 01:57, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Czar, the use cases are found in Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Archival_records. Many casual readers have limited understanding of archival sources, so the template contextualises archival material and provides additional info on the external link like hosting institution and identifiers. Where institutional collections are mapped onto Wikidata, the template simplifies data maintenance by pulling directly from the Wikidata entry. Basically, the template makes it easier to use archival sources, not just link to them. Utl jung (talk) 22:06, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Multiple archival links?
editThank you so much for the creation of this template. Are the fields repeatable? I'm thinking of cases where:
- One repository houses multiple archival collections created by or related to the subject; or
- Multiple repositories house archival collections related to the archival subject.
Thanks again for creation of this template! - kosboot (talk) 11:14, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
- @Kosboot and Utl jung: I took a crack at making the template work for multiple archival collections. I used the Archival_records/sandbox to try things out, using Countee Cullen as my test case (since his archival records are held at three different institutions). However, after I got started I realized that I wouldn't be able to use multiple Module:Wd templates nested inside an Infobox, since there's no way to select the particular qualifiers for each archival collection. Instead, I used using a single Module:Wd template, which allows us to display all the qualifiers grouped together with their particular archival organizations. The only bad news with this is that there's no way to make it look neat and well-labeled like Utl jung did for single archival collections. If you edit the Countee Cullen page to replace the archival records template with "{{archival records/sandbox}}" and preview the results, it should show you what I ended up with. I welcome any feedback/improvements you have. Thanks! Clifflandis (talk) 19:02, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
- I'm here also looking for a way to show multiple archive records, for Anthony Thwaite. PamD 18:25, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, showing multiple Archival records looks awkward based on longer names in each record. There should be a way to make them all have the same length. See Denishawn school as an example of the zig-zag look. Greg Henderson (talk) 17:07, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
- Agreed. It looks awkward and I would not want to shorten any archival collection titles. Perhaps there is some way the box could be standardized with the words wrapping? Thank you for all of your work on this, template authors. Dorevabelfiore (talk) 02:07, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, showing multiple Archival records looks awkward based on longer names in each record. There should be a way to make them all have the same length. See Denishawn school as an example of the zig-zag look. Greg Henderson (talk) 17:07, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
External links to library resources: RfC
editA Request for Comment on external links to library resources, which relates to this template, has started: Wikipedia talk:External links#RfC: External links to library resources. Opinions, knowledge, and suggestions are sought. Please join in. SilkTork (talk) 10:47, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
Archives of a company?
editCan this template also be used for the archives of a company? I'd like to use it for Mikron Theatre Company whose archives are at Heritage Quay. PamD 13:27, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
Visible on mobile or Wikipedia app?
editA friend and I were testing this template and found that it did not display on the mobile format. Is that working as intended? Some templates don't display on mobile. Thank you authors for your work. Dorevabelfiore (talk) 02:07, 14 August 2024 (UTC)