Template talk:Baptist

Symbol

Lately the image/logo at the top of this template has been changed and reverted a few times. The image of Christ being baptized has been on this template from nearly the beginning, it has been stable for years, and I don't think should be changed to a generic Latin cross. Other templates have identifiable logos: Methodism has Wesley, Calvinism has Calvin, Arminianism has Arminius. Why Baptists should be denominated by a bare cross makes no sense when we have the image of the Baptist baptizing. TuckerResearch (talk) 18:14, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello Tuckerresearch (talk · contribs). Thank you for the comments. People can tolerate something problematic for a long time (Baptists#Controversies_that_have_shaped_Baptists), but that is not a legitimate reason not to listen to what other people believe, in other countries (Wikipedia:Systemic bias). The depiction of Jesus or another biblical person is controversial ([How an iconic painting of Jesus as a white man was distributed around the world] [The long history of how Jesus came to resemble a white European]). It is true that some churches use icons, but the majority of Baptist churches in the world do not, because of their understanding of the second of the Ten Commandments. (Cameron J. Anderson, The Faithful Artist: A Vision for Evangelicalism and the Arts, InterVarsity Press, USA, 2016, p. 124 and Doug Jones, Sound of Worship, Taylor & Francis, USA, 2013, p. 90). The cross is the only symbol that is accepted by the majority of churches worldwide (Baptist, Brackney 2020, p. 35). The solution would therefore be to put this symbol recognized by academic references or to find a symbol more representative of Baptist beliefs in the world. Thanks for your help. --Nathan B2 (talk) 01:08, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello. I would recommend you stop unilaterally changing the symbol/logo for this template without any consensus. At least two users (me and another) want it to remain the same, only you seem hell-bent on changing it to a generic cross. By the by, your reasoning is specious. I know of no Baptist churches that do not have illustrations or images of Christ or the Baptist in their literature, in their Bibles, and in their churches. I could just as well point out that many churches and Christian groups disdain the use of the cross for the very same reason you give, as it violates the images prohibition of the Ten Commandments. And, your racial argument is rather disingenuous too. I can't tell in a black-and-white engraving what race or ethnicity or skin color Jesus is. How can you? I might as well point out that your generic Latin cross is disrespectful of Maltese crosses, St. Andrew's cross, and other crosses from other denominations and Christian communities. If you and other folks who work on this template can come up with a better symbol/logo than a bare cross, let's find one. If you and other folks who work on this template can come up with a better symbol/logo than a baptism, let's find one. But for right now, let's keep it at a believer's baptism, which is THE DOCTRINAL DISTINCTIVE that gives the Baptists their very name until we can find something better, or can't find something better. TuckerResearch (talk) 18:08, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

P.S. - Irenically and in love and in Christ. TuckerResearch (talk) 18:11, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi Nathan B2, thanks for your post here and the earlier one on your talk page. I can understand your perspective to a point but it doesn't make sense in this context. The old picture was not meant to be an icon or to portray Jesus as Western European, just a representation of John the Baptist baptizing Jesus, something that is important to the beliefs of Baptists especially. 24.44.73.34 (talk) 18:14, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

I see no good baptism images or Baptist-specific images at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Baptist_Christianity. Any ideas on a different one? TuckerResearch (talk) 18:39, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Well, perhaps one of these https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Baptist_baptisms

If not maybe other pictures of baptism by immersion? Just inclined to think it's fitting. 24.44.73.34 (talk) 18:28, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello Tuckerresearch (talk · contribs) and 24.44.73.34. A baptism by immersion photo would be a good idea. That of Northolt Park Baptist Church represents a multicultural church and is relevant in an international encyclopaedic context (Baptism at Northolt Park Baptist Church (cropped).jpg). Thanks for your help. --Nathan B2 (talk) 00:11, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Just saw the change, I think it works 24.44.73.34 (talk) 10:58, 22 October 2022 (UTC)