Template talk:Cathead English people by place

Archived talk

• /Archive 1

Usage notes

For places within Greater London, use Template:London people message (it fills in some other details).

This template is intended to be placed in categories such as Category:People from Chigwell. It fills in all the various categories they should belong to automatically, so to keep things consistent. The district refers to the local government district which may be either a district, borough, metropolitan borough or Royal borough.

This:
               {{ England people message
                | place=     Chigwell
                | district=  Epping Forest
                | county=    Essex
                }}
 produces:
               This category includes people from Chigwell in Essex, England.

If the article name of the settlement has a suffix you wish to pipe out, add:

               | piped=  Chigwell 

Category topology

It will create the following category topology:

Category:People from Essex	Category:People by city or town in England	Category:Epping Forest
		Category:People from Epping Forest District
Category:People from Loughton

If the settlement has been affected by a county boundary change, add:

| old-county=  Lancashire 
| year=1974

Category:People from Merseyside	Category:People from Lancashire	Category:People by city or town in England	Category:Sefton
	Category:People from Lancashire (before 1974)		Category:People from the Metropolitan Borough of Sefton
Category:People from Aintree

Discussion

I would like to propose a wording amendment so that it inserts the phrase "from the local authority district of XXX" to avoid confusion. For example on Category:People from Wigan it would read This category includes people from Wigan in the Local Authority area of Wigan, Greater Manchester, England. It was in Lancashire until 1974. I think it would avoid some confusion. This would not affect the structure of the cats. --Regan123 19:44, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

OK. I've gone ahead and added this as there were no objections. I have not wikilinked it though as I'm not sure it is useful to do so.--Regan123 10:35, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah. I didn't see that note. I'll change to local government district as that is the terminology used to describe them officially. MRSC • Talk 08:16, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

What the h is this "people from x by settlement" category and why do we need it? It seems to be way too finely grained to me. --kingboyk 13:19, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Changes to this template

The template has been changed twice in the last few weeks. In neither case was there any specific discussion prior to the changes - as far as I can tell. Can I make a plea that before any other changes are made, they are discussed here first. Rjm at sleepers (talk) 16:18, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

District

This template automatically appends the word "(district)" to the category link for "People from ..."; so, for example, if the "district" value is Trafford, the article is added to Category:People from Trafford (district). However, that particular category is a redirect to Category:People from Trafford. Either (a) the template should allow classifying people directly to the target category, which currently isn't possible; or (b) the Trafford category should be renamed to fit the "(district)" pattern that the template assumes. At the moment, I have no opinion as to which approach is preferable. --Russ (talk) 21:15, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Update for locality = district

I've added the ability to use this template in categories where the locality is the only one in the district. It stops the template creating categories of the sort [[Category:People from Hastings (district)]] and replaces it with e.g. [[Category:Hastings]]

{{ England people message | place= Hastings | category= Hastings | county= East Sussex }}

To make this work, the "district=" field is replaced with "category=", as above. MRSC (talk) 19:54, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Update for former county = no longer exits

This template was creating [[Category: People from Cumberland (before 1974)]] which was pretty unhelpful as all localities that were in Cumberland ceased to be in 1974; therefore [[:Category: People from Cumberland]] would suffice.

{{ England people message | place= Alston | district= Eden | county= Cumbria | old-county-abolished= Cumberland | year=1974 }}

To make this work, the "old-county=" field is replaced with "old-county-abolished=", as above. The existing set fields continue to work for counties that changed boundaries and continue to exist. MRSC (talk) 15:29, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Quibble

This is adding 2 categories to 'Cat:People from X': people from the district including X and also from the county including X. The second is redundant to the first (as Category:People from X's district' will almost always be a subcat of 'People from X's county'). Can this be fixed? Eg Category:People from Doncaster is placed in Category:People from Doncaster (district) and also Category:People from South Yorkshire, and the second is redundant. Occuli (talk) 18:16, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Fixed in this edit. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:16, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Another quibble: as noted above on 1/1/2009, this template automatically appends the word "(district)" to the category link for "People from ...", which was fine for the old Category:People from Bassetlaw (district) but does not move the sub-cats to the renamed Category:People from Bassetlaw. One answer would be to reverse that recent C2D renaming [1] as contrary to C2C within Category:People by district in England. – Fayenatic London 20:08, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

A quick perusal of Category:People by district in England shows several styles, i.e some have no disambiguator, some (district), some (London borough)‎. We shouldn't be forcing categories to have the extra (district) when the head article/category doesn't, and especially not just to satisfy the requirements of a single template. Tassedethe (talk) 14:18, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Who's up for revising the template with an "ifexist" function for the district category? I see the above example has been resolved by removing the template. [2] – Fayenatic London 16:58, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Definitely. That or a way of specifying the actual category name if it doesn't follow a set pattern. Tassedethe (talk) 22:54, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I have belatedly done this, and updated the documentation. Here's an example of a category no longer appending "(district)": [3]. – Fayenatic London 10:05, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. Expect disappointed readers, though, when they realize this template has nothing to do with English people with the heads of cats. --BDD (talk) 18:25, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:England people message → Template:Cathead English people by place – The convention of Category:Category header templates is "Template:Cathead foo" or "Template:Category header foo". Changing the rest of the name to "people by place" clarifies the purpose of the template, which is to create a category, rather than just generate a message. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:15, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

catsort on borough

The template isn't adding a catsort for the |borough of= param (it's adding them under P). See the five cats that use the template within Category:People from the Borough of Stockton-on-Tees. Could someone with template skills add this please? Thanks, Nzd (talk) 10:45, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

@Nzd:  Done Please let me know if you spot any errors resulting from that. – Fayenatic London 08:49, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

@Fayenatic london: Thank you, will do. Nzd (talk) 10:25, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Untracked errors

@MRSC and Crouch, Swale: please would you or another editor add a tracking category to report whatever is going wrong at Category:People from Bignall End, Category:People from Butt Lane, etc? – Fayenatic London 22:43, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Rathfelder removed 21 categories from Staffordshire, probably because they are in a sub-cat by borough. [4] Would it be best to make it optional for the template to generate the county category? – Fayenatic London 09:40, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes they shouldn't be in the county category if also in the district category per WP:SUBCAT. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:28, 5 March 2023 (UTC)