Template talk:Cite ship register

Comments

Why is the registry name bolded? It looks pretty terrible in the middle of other, non-bolded references. Otherwise, good work. Remember to take care of correct spelling, capitalization etc. of the classification society and database names. Tupsumato (talk) 13:03, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Also, I don't think MMSI should be included in this template as it is not used in any database in the scope of this template (marinetraffic.com is not one). Personally I use {{MMSI}} only in the "ship identification" field together with {{IMO number}} etc., so I see no use for it in this template. Tupsumato (talk) 13:07, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Also², add a list of all available options to the documentation. I'm not sure why the template needs to be able to differentiate between e.g. "DNV" and "Det norske veritas" [sic]? Just teach everyone to use the abbreviations from the beginning — we're all new to this fancy tool, after all! What else... personally I would emphasize the name of the ship and put the database id to parenthesis, e.g. "Costa Concordia (9320544)", or even leave the ID out completely. It's just a pointer ot the database entry, not really relevant information. Tupsumato (talk) 13:18, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Ah, let's continue discussion on the project talk page. Tupsumato (talk) 13:21, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

OK. bobrayner (talk) 13:32, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Sandbox and testcases

Recently, another editor added this template to Category:Citation templates not conforming to an established style. That piqued my curiosity so I looked at it. The first thing that struck me about the structure of the template was the amount of duplication within it. That seemed the first thing to fix. So I've created a sandbox and a testcases page.

In the sandbox, I have grouped items (LR with LLOYDS, etc). The only significant difference between synonymous register names was between RINA and LEONARDO where the LEONARDO version has an extra Leonardo Info string. You can see this difference in the left column of the testcases table. I've deleted the extraneous text. The list of registries in the switch is now in alpha order, initialism or acronym first.

Also in the sand box version, I've changed the accessdate output to mimic the output as rendered by Citation Style 1 templates (those are the ubiquitous {{cite web}} etc). Because several of the registries require membership, I added a switch to the end of the template to add the {{subscription required}} template to output for those registries. At the moment they are BV, LR, Equasis, and Miramar.

Where I could find this template used in article space, I copied the |id= and |shipname= to the testcases page. I have not found Clydebuilt / Clydesite, ITU / MARS, MMSI, and Shipping Database used with this template. If any of you know of ship articles that use these registries, please point them out or fill in the testcases table.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:13, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Could you change the Finnish Mercantile Marine Database to show something like "Finnish National Board of Antiquities, Finnish Mercantile Marine Database (SS Ernst Brockelmann). Retrieved on 2012-12-30" instead of the ID. Also, Equasis could be something like "French Ministry of Transport, Equasis (Hamburg). Retrieved..." instead of just a redlink to Equasis (no idea where the MoT link should point...). LR and RMRS are also annoyingly showing the ID (and not the database name) and RINA should be spelled open. Tupsumato (talk) 22:18, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Changes made to the sandbox. See them on the testcases page. Is that what you were looking for?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:59, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Almost. I made some minor modifications to Equasis, FMMD, LR and RMRS by myself in the sandbox, so now they are in line with the other (working) options. Is there an option to use #else in addition to #if, for example "#if "shipname" (#then) put ship name to the output, #else put ID to the output"? Tupsumato (talk) 07:32, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

I expect that that can be done. To get this template out of Category:Citation templates not conforming to an established style purgatory, I want to see if it is possible to feed the local parameters to {{citation/core}} and let that handle formatting. Since |id= doesn't have an equivalent {{citation/core}} parameter, I had thought to concatenate |id= to |shipname=. So, when both are present this: "Shipname (id)"; if |shipname= only then this "Shipname"; if |id= only, then this: "id".

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:24, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

I have converted the RINA registry citation to feed its parameters to {{citation/core}}. Also added error detection so that a message is emitted when the template doesn't supply |id=. |shipname= and |id= are concatenated when both are provided as I described in my previous post. Now to convert the rest.

I think that I will also require that all parameters be named. It makes the coding easier and more in-line with Citation style 1. Long-form registry names will not be recognized. {{cite ship register |register=''registry'' |shipname=''name'' |id=''id'' |accessdate=''date''}}

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:34, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

All registries now feed their parameters to {{citation/core}}. Unnamed parameters are not allowed (I'll hunt around for {{cite ship register}} templates that use unnamed parameters and fix them before I consider taking the sandbox live). Long-form registry names are not allowed.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:59, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

I like it! Perhaps the quotation marks could be left out? Tupsumato (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Quotation marks are added, correctly, I think, by {{citation/core}}. The concatenated |shipname= / |id= is, for all intents and purposes, the title of a web page – roughly akin to a chapter so appropriately enclosed in quotation marks. That's my interpretation; MOS:TITLE is actually mute on the subject. Even if I wanted to, I don't think that they can be removed without somehow editing citation/core. I don't foresee that happening ...

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:53, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion, we should implement these changes now while the template has not been widely adopted. In its current form, the "live version" produces some pretty ugly citations. I don't have AWB on this computer, but I could participate in manual conversion. Tupsumato (talk) 19:31, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Empty accessdate field

If the accessdate field is missing, the template will still show "Retrieved .". Could this be removed in cases where no accessdate is provided? Tupsumato (talk) 00:08, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

 Done

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Tokyo MOU

Can you add the functionality of {{cite tokyo mou}} to {{csr}} so we can nominate the template for deletion. It's not used, anyway, but perhaps it could be useful. Tupsumato (talk) 23:13, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

ABS database

I am getting an error when accessing database entries through this template. It could be that ABS does not allow direct external links. Should we replace them with a link to the search page? Tupsumato (talk) 08:46, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

When I started looking in to this, neither of the Emma Mærsk ABS links on the testcases page worked. On the Emma Mærsk page there is a {{cite web}} reference to the ABS that uses this |url=:

http://www.eagle.org/safenet/record/record_vesseldetailsprinparticular?Classno=06151181

That citation worked.

{{Cite ship register}} uses this as the url:

http://www.eagle.org/safenet/record/record_vesseldetailsprinparticular?Classno{{{id}}}&Accesstype=PUBLIC&ReferrerApplication=PUBLIC

I notice that the ?Classno{{{id}}} part of the {{csr}} url is missing an equal sign – it should be: ?Classno={{{id}}}.

So I changed the sandbox. Now the sandbox version appears to work:

{{cite ship register/sandbox|register=ABS |id=06151181 |shipname=Emma Mærsk |accessdate={{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}}}

"Emma Mærsk (06151181)". ABS Record. American Bureau of Shipping. Retrieved 2024-12-01.

But wait! What? Now the live version (without the equal sign) is also working?!

{{cite ship register|register=ABS |id=06151181 |shipname=Emma Mærsk |accessdate={{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}}}

"Emma Mærsk (06151181)". ABS Record. American Bureau of Shipping. Retrieved 2024-12-01.

I can't explain this peculiarity. A quick search for another ship to try (using What Links Here) didn't show up any other ship articles that cite the ABS. When you find one, try using the sandbox version of {{csr}} and see if that works. Report back with your findings.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:37, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

My test cases are Aiviq and Mærsk Mc-Kinney Møller (ship), both of which are using the "live" template and missing the equal sign (=).

"Mærsk Mc-Kinney Møller (13232687)". ABS Record. American Bureau of Shipping. Retrieved 5 July 2013.

"Aiviq (12185769)". ABS Record. American Bureau of Shipping. Retrieved 2012-06-20.

Tupsumato (talk) 12:42, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, same weirdness. These {{cite ship register/sandbox}} cites both work and once they worked, so did the live version.

"Mærsk Mc-Kinney Møller (13232687)". ABS Record. American Bureau of Shipping. Retrieved 5 July 2013.

"Aiviq (12185769)". ABS Record. American Bureau of Shipping. Retrieved 2012-06-20.

Without objection then, I'll synch {{cite ship register}} to the sandbox.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Make it so. Tupsumato (talk) 18:32, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

 Done

—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:59, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

BV link does not work

The database link to Bureau Veritas does not work. It's probably better to direct it to the search page.

Also, could someone synchronize the sandbox version with the live version. Last time the sandbox was copied over to live, we lost CLASSNK. Tupsumato (talk) 07:38, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Because there is a sandbox for this template, all changes should be made there and tested with the testcases before they are incorporated into the live template. You added CLASSNK directly to the the live template. I changed and tested the ABS link in the sandbox before I updated the live template and so negated your work. If there had been a test case for CLASSNK in testcases then it would have been immediately obvious to me that I was about to break the template. I have since added CLASSNK to testcases.

I have updated the link to BV in the sandbox. The new link works in the testcases page so without objection I'll sync the live version to the sandbox.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 10:37, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

And another thing: Right now, BV is marked with subscription required yet, it allows us to read a ship's record. I've removed the link note from the BV citation.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 10:45, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

 Done

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:52, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Apparently BV's link changed again. Now it seems to use the IMO number, e.g. [1]. Tupsumato (talk) 04:37, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

I made a temporary BVIMO id for the new link. There shouldn't be that many referrals to the old BV, but I'll go through them with AWB at some point and fix them. Tupsumato (talk) 04:40, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Korean Register of Shipping

Korean Register of Shipping (KR) seems to have an open database here and the entries can be linked. I haven't seen any KR classified ships in Wikipedia yet, but it could be included in the template. Tupsumato (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Added to {{cite ship register/sandbox}} and testcases.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:47, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Looks good. It appears that they are writing "ships" in lowercase, so it's more like a register of ships instead of a register of ships named "Register of Ships". Not sure if it matters. Anyway, I'm all in for copying it over to live version. Not sure if/when the functionality is needed, but it's still good to have. Tupsumato (talk) 18:18, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

RS uses REGISTER OF SHIPS, CLASSNK uses Register of Ships (title case), and KR uses Register of ships (sentence case). As part of the change to add KR I made all three use the same case in a switch statement. I'll change the output of that case statement to be sentence case because Wikipedia generally uses sentence case.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:27, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

 Done

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:52, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Equasis

Although the table here correctly shows Equasis as "Free registration required", I found subcript at IMO numbers (currently cite 9) has "(subscription required)". Seems to be buried in the csr template. Can that be corrected? Davidships (talk) 15:50, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Done.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:54, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Trappist, but it's still there at cite 9 on IMO numbers Davidships (talk) 20:10, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

I think you were seeing a cached version. I null edited IMO numbers so ref 9 should display correctly.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:16, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Ta very much, that was probably it, appears O~K now. Davidships (talk) 01:55, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Clydeships - new link, new IDs; help needed!

Firstly, I apologize for breaking things, but the database link to Clyde-built Ships led to some automatic advertisement-based redirect with all kinds of popups etc. However, while I fixed the link to point to the current database, I realized that the ship IDs have changed. Could someone use Autowikibrowser or some similar tool to create a list of all articles where {{csr}} refers to Clydeships ("register=C") and put it in some temp space; I can then help to fix the references by hand. Tupsumato (talk) 09:52, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Does this search do what you want?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:53, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Yes, thank you. I'll work on it later tonight. Somehow I was expecting more... Tupsumato (talk) 14:26, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Y Fixed. Tupsumato (talk) 15:39, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Links to Miramar not working?

It appears that references to Miramar Ship Index are showing up as links to Miramar's home page, instead of to the desired ship page. Does anyone know why this is, or how to fix it? The Wicked Twisted Road (talk) 01:45, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Ah, I figured it out. /me takes a bow. The Wicked Twisted Road (talk) 02:26, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Adding of the archive parameters like they are used in the Cite web meta-template

Hi at all,

as much as I like the functionality of this template I miss a archive function like in the Cite web meta-template. I will give you the vessel Jacklyn (ship) as an example. A lot of informations about this vessel were taken from the DNV GL vessel register.

https://vesselregister.dnvgl.com/VesselRegister/vesseldetails.html?vesselid=19270

For some reasons the vessel is no longer registered there and now all you can see with the text editor that the URL is dead. It is not shown on the mainpage that something is wrong with this link. Actually the DNV GL website does not answer with an 404 code but instead of this is warning that the "Vessel with id=19270 is not found" In the example mentioned below I tried to insert some parameters also used in the archive section of Cite web meta-template. (Please check this with the section openend in the text editor)

It isn´t presented as expected but at least there is not an error statement. It would be nice if this template would incorporate the archive functionality from the Cite web meta-template. I would like to thank for your consideration.

Best regards Yeti-Hunter (talk) 08:57, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Unfortunately the classification society databases are not persistent i.e. if the vessel is disclassed, it will disappear from the database. I don't think the databases are archived by third-party services such as the Wayback Machine. Tupsumato (talk) 10:50, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi Tupsumato, the first thing what I`m asking to is to get the parameters (e.g. |archive-url=|archive-date=||url-status=) for use of the third party services such as the Wayback Machine implemented into the template Cite_ship_register. In my example I have added those parameters manualy and initiated to get the page archived. But the presence of the archive content related to the disclassed vessel is not presented to the usual Wikipedia user (not the Wikipedian who knows how to read the text with the text editor opend).

Actually the line presented in the reference section looks like this: "FALKOR (TOO) (28798)". DNV GL Vessel Register. Det Norske Veritas. Retrieved 11 April 2021. But if the asked parameters would be implemented it would look like this: "FALKOR (TOO) (28798)". DNV GL Vessel Register. Det Norske Veritas. Archived from the original on 12 April 2021. Retrieved 11 April 2021.

The second thing I would like to point out is that there is no visible indication that a permanent link to the classification society database is dead. I will give you the Jacklyn_(ship) as an example. The vessel was declassed and the website is responding that "Vessel with id=19270 is not found" It´s not shown in the reference section that the permanent link is dead. In order to get the WP:IABOT working I think it´s neccesary that the flag "[permanent dead link]" is raised aka (Link_rot) is set. If the template would be working like proposed bots could raise the flag and in the reference section the line would look like this: 1. "LPV (19270)". DNV GL Vessel Register. Det Norske Veritas. Retrieved 25 November 2018.[permanent dead link]

To sum it up, in my opinion the first proposal relates to the template Cite_ship_register and it´s ability to handle archived sources. The second proposal relates to the interaction between the template and bots which depends on the interfaces I guess. Best regards Yeti-Hunter (talk) 04:01, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarifications. I'm afraid I have to yield to more experienced editors with this issue. Tupsumato (talk) 08:13, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

References

ABS again

Maybe a little while ago now, ABS restructured their database site - the entry point is now [2], with the result displaying at [3]. I haven't found a way to obtain a unique URL for the shipdata. Perhaps Tupsumato or Trappist the monk can figure out whether it is still possble? - Davidships (talk) 19:01, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

If that is all that you get for a 'result' url regardless of how you fill in the search form then there is nothing that the {{cite ship register}} can do. You might have to ask ABS if there is a way around that search form.

There are ~60 articles that use {{cite ship register}} with |register=ABS. I tried a {{csr}} link from Container ship (Mærsk Mc-Kinney Møller) which landed me on a login page so I don't know if those old urls still work. When I used the vessel name in the ABS input form I get no response other than the spinning dots thingy – pretty pathetic for a 'professional' data source. When I input the IMO number, I got a hit but no usable url.

Someone who has access to ABS will have to answer the question about old url functionality. If they work then it appears (from my one experiment) that for ABS, |id= gets the class number (13232687 for Mærsk Mc-Kinney Møller).

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:49, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

It's hard to stay up to date with the classification society databases. For example, it's (again?) possible to create a direct link to the Russian Maritime Register of Shipping database entries but the ID is neither the IMO number nor the RS number... Tupsumato (talk) 10:54, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Direct link vs. link to database main/search page

Some databases allow direct linking to vessel entries and some don't; I've tried to identify these in the template documentation but I have some troubles (at least) with LR and RINA. However, regardless of whether such direct linking is possible or not, presently the link is in the vessel's name and id. Could we turn the name of the database after the vessel's name and id into a link to the search page and link the name and id to the vessel entry only when it is possible? Tupsumato (talk) 19:57, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Also, if possible, could someone review the work I've done tonight to see that I have not inadvertently broken anything. Tupsumato (talk) 19:58, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Alias csr not working

The alias version <ref>{{csr register=DNV |id=38545.......... doesn't work - I tried with source "E", and then the "DNV" sample as is. Just get " Template:Csr register=E" or "Template:Csr register=DNV" in red.

The full version is working as normal. - Davidships (talk) 23:19, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

The alias is {{csr}}; {{csr register}} is a bit redundant, no?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:36, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Not exactly that. But I've found the problem: the example is missing a "|" after "csr" - I've corrected the cut-and-paste example now. - Davidships (talk) 01:44, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

ClassNK

The link doesn't take to a data page, but defaults to ClassNK search page. But I wonder whether the wizards here can link it using the same url as Equasis uses to link to NK ships: https://www.classnk.or.jp/register/regships/one_dsp.aspx?imo=9460784 - Davidships (talk) 14:39, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I made that because I didn't find a way to link to the database entry itself. However, I'd rather use ClassNK's classification number as the identifier for backward compatibility. I wonder if there's a query parameter for that. Otherwise we have to change all ClassNK references to IMO number or create e.g. CLASSNK2 that allows using IMO number as id. Tupsumato (talk) 20:03, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Another alternative could be some kind of "id2" parameter that overrides the first "id" in the URL. In ClassNK's case, these would be the society's own classification number and the ship's IMO number, respectively. Tupsumato (talk) 20:18, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Format would be https://www.classnk.or.jp/register/regships/status.aspx?cno=113419 (notice extra '1' at the end) but no direct link allowed unfortunately IlkkaP (talk) 00:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't know if there's a Wikipedia policy for that, but if ClassNK does not like direct linking to their database, perhaps we should not be trying to find a loophole for that. However, if we can't link to the entry itself, perhaps the database name should be a link to the search page and the ship name left unlinked unless a direct link can be provided (as I proposed earlier)? Tupsumato (talk) 05:55, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

But ClassNK do provide for direct linking to their database, so the question of a "loophole" doesn't arise. It seems that ClassNK have decided to change the external link protocol from one unique identifier (NK Class No) to another (IMO). The problem is, as you indicated further up, that it may be difficult to adapt the current WP protocols to facilitate that. Well, the current version only leads to the search page. As with shipping databases, ClassNK's has no permanence, in the sense that it is a "latest information snapshot" only, and if the ship is no longer classed by them the page will just disappear. That's fine for sourcing current information, but it provides no verifiability over time. The set up is that a data page reached via the search page is just embedded in the search page and, I believe, cannot be archived as such. The sample link leads to the same information, with a discrete URL, which can be archived, so infinitely better for referencing. - Davidships (talk) 02:10, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Good point. I didn't think it from that perspective. I'll revert to my earlier proposal: secondary parameter that would allow direct linking to ClassNK database using IMO number while still retaining ClassNK's classification ID as primary identifier.

• Input: {{csr|register=ClassNK|id=113419|id2=9460784|shipname=True Confidence|accessdate=26 May 2024}}
• Output: "True Confidence (113419)". Register of ships. Nippon Kaiji Kyokai (ClassNK). Retrieved 26 May 2024.

"id2" could also be useful with databases that have a distinct parameter that is neither the primary ID nor the IMO number.

...or am I complicating things too much? Tupsumato (talk) 19:58, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Looks good. The challenge is that if after implementing the change NK decides to forbid direct links by IMO number, too. IlkkaP (talk) 04:07, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

I guess we'll have to address the changes as they appear. In the meanwhile, we should think of an implementation plan. Could someone generate a list of articles where the template is used to cite ClassNK? Tupsumato (talk) 05:32, 27 May 2024 (UTC)