Template talk:Fraternities and sororities

Untitled discussion

Bear with me on this one guys, I'm still trying to work out the kinks with this template and figure out how I want it laid out. I'd love some input or assistance on developing this template! :-) Bali88 (talk) 18:54, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

We really should have a category for Coed Service Fraternities (alongside the other types already having rows in the Template, such as Social, Historically Black, Native American, etc.). As a member of Alpha Phi Omega myself, I can tell you that it is definitely a Fraternity as opposed to a regular club. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 15:54, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

I disagree. This listing is defacto those groups that claim Title IX exemption (The Social Fraternities and Sororities grouping is more or less the ones that don't fit into any other grouping and many of which are historically legally Protestant and White split by gender). This template should be renamed Social Fraternities and Sororities and Alpha Phi Omega included in either an expanded or another template. Alpha Phi Omega is included in Template:Professional Fraternities, although viewing Alpha Phi Omega as a Professional Fraternity is only because it joined the PFA after the PFA changed their bylaws.Naraht (talk) 16:22, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

There *should* be a Service GLO template, But deciding where to expand it beyond APO, GSS and OPA is problematic.Naraht (talk) 16:50, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

There are 2 problems with your counterargument based on Title IX exemption specifically.

1. Title IX is only a Federal United States law, and not a Worldwide Convention. (There are very few Mandatory Conventions in our world, but that is a completely unrelated topic.) Anyway, Title IX is only in the USA. The Greek Movement is Worldwide, not just USA. Chapters in other countries neither have nor lack a Title IX exemption, as the topic is irrelevant to them.

2. By your own admission, there are only 3 clear-cut examples of Service Fraternities with a large enough number of chapters to be Notable. That, in and of itself, is a numerical reason to add a row to this template rather than making another one entirely.

By the way, considering APO a "Professional" Fraternity is misleading despite its inter-organization affiliation. It is if anything more similar to Social Fraternities than it is to the likes of Sigma Alpha, Gamma Iota Sigma, and Delta Theta Phi, all of which are Major-specific as a true Professional Fraternity would imply. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 05:45, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

1. Title IX and the exemption thereof that they claim covers 99% of the organizations mentioned here. Until this list includes significant mentions from the Philippines (Tau Gamma Phi/Tau Gamma Sigma, Alpha Chi Rho) or Canada/France (such as Sigma Thêta Pi), Title IX covers the greek letter organizations mentioned. This list is defacto US GLOs.

2. SPURS and Intercollegiate Knights *had* more active chapters than Omega Phi Alpha, once notable, always notable.

3. I never said that Alpha Phi Omega was a Professional Fraternity, I'm a strong supporter of using the groupings used in Baird's where the Service Greeks are under the "Recognition Societies" (as a 5th grouping other than Social Fraternities, Social Sororities, Professional and Honorary).

4. What I mean is that I'd rather see *this* template moved to another name that has the name "Social" in it (as all of the groups there *are* and Alpha Phi Omega added to a more comprehensive better one like Template:Scoutorg BSA

5. Good to meet a fellow Alpha Phi Omega brother on Wikipedia. (Initiated Fall '86 Kappa-Carnegie Mellon U.)Naraht (talk) 16:08, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Good point on how we should add more non-American Fraternities and Sororities to this Template. I'm all for that, as well. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 23:56, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, missed the response. Do we want to make a service GLO template as well?Naraht (talk)

Regarding music and band fraternities

There are currently three of the four primary National Interfraternity Music Council (NIMC) members that are currently included on the template: the two primary music organizations which are both single-sex and claim a Title IX exemption Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia and Sigma Alpha Iota as well as the co-ed band sorority Tau Beta Sigma. Tau Beta Sigma's counterpart organization, the co-ed band fraternity, Kappa Kappa Psi is not included on the template. I'm interested in any feedback regarding their continued inclusion or removal from the template as well as if they are continued to be included on the template, their proper classification on it. Thanks for any and all feedback on this matter. Freddiem (talk) 01:36, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Philippine GLOs

If Hazing deaths include the Philippines, then there should probably be a line for the Philippine GLOs.

Requested move 24 March 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Limited discussion, but based on previous discussions, this move is unlikely to come to fruition. Additionally, the template has links outside of NA. Anarchyte (talk | work) 12:22, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

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Template:Fraternities and sororities → Template:Fraternities and sororities from North America – WP:PRECISION per WP:GLOBAL. Fraternities have existed elsewhere before and after. PPEMES (talk) 16:29, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Oppose See previous discussion on Talk:Fraternities and sororities#Requested move 31 March 2019 and Talk:Fraternities and sororities#Requested move 8 April 2019. Other than the fact that this is a template rather than an article, I see no reason that the same opposition wouldn't exist.Naraht (talk) 21:20, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Comment in addition this template does have links to topics outside of North America, so labelling it that would be inaccurate. And Sororities haven't existed before. The word is a created construct in the United States of America in the 19th century.Naraht (talk) 21:22, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Locals

Ought this template include local chapters? I see that Sigma Psi, a 100+ year old local sorority at Case Western Reserve University is listed among the general sororities. Other than them, that line includes the 26 NPC sororities along with national Kappa Beta Gamma. Other locals may be notable among fraternities and sororities. Hence:

• Is there a cutoff line, where a local is notable enough to be listed? Even today, there are many.
• Should there be separate sections for local general fraternities or sororities, if they meet that bar of notability?
• Kappa Beta Gamma operates as a general sorority, without the STEM focus of Alpha Sigma Kappa, which delegates them to the Major Specific section. I think ΚΒΓ is placed correctly.

Thoughts? Maybe I'm coming late to this discussion. Jax MN (talk) 19:48, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

If they are notable enough for articles, IMO, they are notable enough to be considered for this template. Whether we include all of them is another question.Naraht (talk) 20:26, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Historically Scout-affiliated

This template already includes sections for "Historically African American," "Historically Native American," etc. A section of "Historically Scout-affiliated" could very well include Alpha Phi Omega, Omega Phi Alpha, and Epsilon Tau Pi to name 3 of them. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 07:49, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Not sure I'd support, but further information.

• Alpha Phi Omega - Originally BSA - Changed to any WOSM sometime in the 1950s, still trying to pin that down, no longer required after the 1967 Constitutional Convention
• Omega Phi Alpha - Originally GSUSA and Camp Fire girls, can't find the date they changed to all women, may drop a note to the sorority
• Epsilon Tau Pi - Requires Eagle Scouts
• Knights of Dunamis - http://usscouts.org/honorsociety/knights.asp

Naraht (talk) 11:46, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

From another article on that same source Website, that you linked: "It is still unknown at what point Gimogash died out in Toledo and why. It is known that Toledo had a chapter of the Knights of Dunamis for a number of years. Perhaps the Knights were brought in by a council executive and that displaced Gimogash." This would imply that the Knights of Dunamis were a Council-based society in BSA itself, similar to Order of the Arrow, and not a collegiate fraternity like the other three. I am referring to the overlap of Scouting-adjacent organizations into Greek Life. We aren't referring to the Black Panthers as a "historically Black fraternity," either, and while Black activism and Scouting are two different topics, you can see the analogy. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 06:44, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2023

ΣΦΔ is a professional engineering fraternity, not a social one 167.98.201.19 (talk) 11:22, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:28, 27 May 2023 (UTC)