Template talk:List of European capitals by region

Kosovo

kosovo isn't recognized as state. Only some conturies has recognized Kosovo. So I sugest to make notice that kosovo isn't recognized. In this template you haven't put informations about Sukhumi - Abkhazia. So, I sugest to make new part with disputet teritories and to add this conturies --Јованвб (talk) 11:44, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I've added a ref explaing that -- CD 12:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Subdivisions

The current divisions in to N/E/S/W is a little suspect... Vienna is not in Western Europe by any geographical measure you care to use, especially bearing in mind that Prague is labelled as Eastern Europe (along with places as far east as Yerevan) despite being considerably further west than Vienna. The standard terminlogy used for Austria, Czech Republic, Hungary etc is Central Europe and this template should reflect this with a fifth category. Knepflerle (talk) 13:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

No complaints, so was bold and made the update using the CIA World Factbook as my source. There are several different definitons of these regions, but this is a well-established source which seems to be consistent on this matter both with our articles and with wider publications. Knepflerle (talk) 11:51, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

CIA World FB can't necessarily serve as a reference for this, especially since the some content has been imported and revised elsewhere in WP. I made few fixes, restoring some of the previous versions. -- User:Docu

Weird indeed - France going farther east than Luxembourg western - Luxembourg central. Andorra western, yet the much more western Portugal and Spain are Southern...... Arnoutf (talk) 12:51, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

UK

Why are the subdivisions of the UK listed, and those of other states not? Fasach Nua (talk) 15:16, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Which other states have a similar geo-political structure to the UK? If there are other countries which consist of "countries within countries", then they should also probably be listed in a similar way.--Setanta747 (talk) 19:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

You could look at Spain with the Basque Country, the Catalan Countries all of which have their own devolved governments, Bavaria has its own citizenship, beyond than of German citizenship, and the Ukraine has the Crimea, and I am sure there are many more, geography isnt my strong point, I see nothing that makes the UK special beyond the fact that English speakers would be more familiar with it Fasach Nua (talk) 07:20, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, I'd like to take the opportunity to discuss the question of the capital of England here. Although I consider London established as the de facto capital of England (as well as being the capital of the UK), I understand Fasach's query with regard to this as England has no government of its own. (see also the discussion on my talk page). --Setanta747 (talk) 19:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the inclusion of the UK subdivisions looks odd unless others are included as well. This would increase the number of cities listed considerably. -- User:Docu

England, Scotland, Northern Ireland & Wales should be deleted. GoodDay (talk) 22:32, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

That's a rather extremist viewpoint GoodDay. Unless you mean just from this template. Daicaregos (talk) 08:20, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are separate countries with their own capitals despite being part of the political entity which is the United Kingdom.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:18, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

They are countries of the United Kingdom, it only needs to be covered once in the template. Including nations like Scotland and Wales, causes requests for inclusion like below.. the communities of Spain, the German states often come up in the debate too because the German language name or them is the same as country i seem to recall. BritishWatcher (talk) 10:19, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with BW, we should remove these entities and consider renaming this template, so requests to include other areas will not persist. The words "Sovereign States" should be substituted in place of "region". Outback the koala (talk) 21:54, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Wales, Scotland, England and Northern Ireland each have capital cities. They are shown on List of national capitals and should be shown on this template, per NPOV. The template is fine just how it is. Daicaregos (talk) 08:20, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I disagaree & further more, they should be excluded from the national capitals list, too. GoodDay (talk) 15:02, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

More editors here support the removal of EWSNI than support keeping them. The template should match the description in the first bar of the template. "European states and territories". Only states/territories should be listed, all non states/non territories should be removed. BritishWatcher (talk) 11:36, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

There is no consensus, which means it remains unchanged. Is there any reason you choose only the the first bar of the template? The template name is 'European capitals by region' and the second bar of the template has "Capitals of non-sovereign territories or constituent nations shown in SmallCaps". Daicaregos (talk) 11:51, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The first bar is the title, the contents should reflect that first bar. The second bar is not to add a secondary list to the template. EWSNI should never of been added to this template in the first place. The actual location of this template which makes no mention of "countries" means that any capital in Europe could be listed if we do not narrow it down based on what is in the title displayed on the template. BritishWatcher (talk) 12:01, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree, this seem like a no brainer - they're not sovereign, so lets remove them. If we include constituent countries, why not the same for the countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands? Outback the koala (talk) 21:58, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't agree. They are verifiably capitals, and verifiably countries. There is no consensus to remove them. Daicaregos (talk) 22:56, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Then we should move the title of the template to be in line with what this template is supposed to be. BTW I changed the Netherlands to be non-sovereign, which it is not. Outback the koala (talk) 23:03, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I suggest to delete the UK constituent countries. The UK is a unitary state, there is just one state (the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland), which recognises self-government. The UK is made up of 4 different entities (named "countries"), same as other states are constituted into different entities, or units. 90.169.128.184 (talk) 04:16, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Catalonia is not a constituent country

Catalonia is a constituent entity (i.e. a nationality constituted as an "autonomous community")

Catalonia is an autonomous community like Andalusia, Madrid, Aragon, Valencia, Murcia, Asturias, Galicia, Canary Islands, etc. Is another autonomous community, is not a constituent country.--Hinzel 00:24, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what you undestdand by constituent country. Catalonia may be an autonomous community of Spain but it's a nationality for further information you can see Historical regions in Spain or Nationalisms and regionalisms of Spain. If the template listing criteria is reconsidered, capitals may change, but now it's called List of European capitals by region and I see no problem with BCN. By the way, did you know that Catalonia existed long before Spain?--Jey86 (talk) 10:33, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Catalonia is a nationality like Galicia, Basque Country and Andalusia. Why don't show Santiago, Vitoria and Sevilla in this list?. And yes, Catalonia existed long before Spain, and Aragon (cap. Zaragoza), Castile, Navarra, Kingdom of Valencia, etc. Why don't show in this list Zaragoza, Valencia, Pamplona?. Catalonia is not the only historical nationality in Spain and Barcelona is not the only capital of a historic nationality in Spain. --Hinzel 00:20, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

OK, then it's fine for me to add Galicia, the Basque Country and Andalusia because. We are in this to add information not to delete.--Jey86 (talk) 06:49, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

That's not an argument. If you only ever add things to your kitchen and never remove any, it's going to stink rather soon. Our job as encyclopedia editors is to make intelligent choices for the readers and present them the most relevant material. We are not writing a library. In some cases we must move the less relevant material to a more appropriate place in the encyclopedia, and sometimes we must delete it. No comment on how much the present template should include without proper research on where it's used. Hans Adler 15:34, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Catalonia is a constituent entity (a nationality, constituted into an autonomous community), not very different than Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales. 90.169.128.184 (talk) 03:29, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Constituent entities: the difference between British national division and other European divisions

Constituent countries, constituent communities, constituent regions, constituent states... "Constituent" is a common term in any constitution. What is the difference between the "British constituent contries" and the other European administrative divisions (e.g. Spanish nationalities and regions constituted into decentralised autonomous communities, German states, Belgian communities, regions and language areas)? 90.169.128.184 (talk) 03:45, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Small caps

These are generally against MoS, and applying them to Amsterdam seems perverse. Discuss. Rich Farmbrough, 12:05, 9 February 2011 (UTC).

The template's second line explains: "Capitals of non-sovereign territories or constituent nations shown in SmallCaps". The Netherlands is a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, which is why Amsterdam is shown in small caps. It was, of course, a compromise; as you can probably imagine. My view is that if a place appears on the List of European capitals templates, it is because it is a capital city in Europe, and needs no further explanation. Still, there we are. Daicaregos (talk) 12:21, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

The Netherlands is a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. There is no disputing this. This was hardly a compromise to anything but was a response to the UK section above that occurred on nearly every Euro template talk back in Oct. Outback the koala (talk) 19:06, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I meant that showing the capitals of non-sovereign territories or constituent nations in SmallCaps, was a compromise. Daicaregos (talk) 19:26, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh, sorry I misunderstood. I didn't know that was the case. Outback the koala (talk) 04:51, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Delete "UK constituent (i.e. subnational/co-national) entities (called: countries)"

I suggest to delete all 4 capitals of the British constituent countries, since the UK is not a federal state, but a unitary state (i.e. there is just one state: the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland), with only one capital (London).

What is the difference between a British constituent country, and the rest of European subnational units? Why the UK can display all subnational capitals, while other decentralised states (i.e. with devolved powers), such as Germany (federal) or Spain (unitary), can't display the capitals of their "constituent entities (communities/states)". I think this is not fair... 90.169.128.184 (talk) 03:17, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Gibraltar

Why is Gibraltar listed under both Western and Southern Europe? - Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 13:15, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I wonder the same. If Spain and Portugal are under Southern, then Gibraltar is most certainly only Southern. I will change it. Thank you, Cristiano Tomás (talk) 17:42, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

problem with this template on a narrow screen

I attempted to fix problems with this template on a narrow display, by changing from columns, to standard groups with lists. however, this edit was reverted. please discuss how this problem can be fixed. Frietjes (talk) 19:16, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

I think a horizontal arrangement with each capital in the "Capital, Country" format looks pretty cluttered, actually. If a plain navbox is really needed for small displays, a solution would be to either include only the capitals, or to list the countries and capitals vertically within each group:

The latter option introduces a big empty area on normal displays though. Another option is to make the capitals stand out more by bolding them. SiBr₄ (talk) 19:56, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Regional subdivision???

How can it be that Amsterdam which is more Eastern (and Northern) than London is labelled Western, while London being more Southern (and Western) than Amsterdam is labelled northern. How can in fact the capitals of the Channel Islands (Jersey, Guernsey) even further to the south be labelled Northern. How can it be that Monaco which is at the same longitude as Bern is labelled Western, while Bern is central?

As no source is given, I think this classification is based on (I) a country classification scheme (which is odd since this is a city template) which (II) seems to be original research of someone. Is there any reason for this classification at all; as I think the classification of Monaco as Western is not helping anyone to more readily locate it. (and even if there is a reason can someone bring up a source very soon per WP:RS). Otherwise I suggest to just alphabetise the bunch. Arnoutf (talk) 13:40, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi all, I notice some uncommented reverting going around. Since the regional assignment seems to be unsourced I have no idea who is right here. So I would ask all involved to provide a reliable source on short notice. If no such source is forthcoming I am likely to decide to remove regional listing altogether and replace with an alphabetical listing (I will consider non-response to this post while edits go on to be agreement to that bold decision). Arnoutf (talk) 14:40, 23 October 2018 (UTC)