Template talk:Philippine name

Proposal to use footnote instead of hatnote

I started a discussion here as I believe these types of templates would be less jarring if they appeared as a supplementary footnote rather than a "warning" above the lead. —Designate (talk) 19:05, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Proposed variants

I would like to propose three alternative variants for Philippine name aside from the usual middle name (maternal family name) and surname (paternal family name) variant. The first alternative variant is for married women: "This name uses Philippine naming customs for married women: the middle name or maternal family name is _____, the surname or paternal family name is ______ and the marital name is _____."

The second alternative variant is for natural children (Diego Loyzaga for example): "This name uses Philippine naming customs for natural children. This person has no middle name, but the surname or maternal family name is ______."

And the third alternative variant is for natural children who are married: "This name uses Philippine naming customs for natural children and married women. This person has no middle name, but the surname or maternal family name is ______ and the marital name is _____."

I hope you consider my proposal. 203.215.121.30 (talk) 13:14, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Hello 203.215.121.30, feel free to make any mockup changes you want in the template sandbox here: Template:Philippine name/sandbox and test them out on your sandbox. If this is really just a request for someone else to do the work you will have to wait until someone volunteers. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:39, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Philippine name template for stage name

How about the variant through the stage name? Here this:

"This name uses Philippine naming customs; the middle name or maternal family name is ＿＿＿ and the surname or paternal family name is ＿＿＿. In stage/pen name, the surname is _____." RenRen070193 (talk) 14:13, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Tested three additional variants

I have tested three additional variants of Philippine naming customs in sandbox: natural children, married women, and patronymic. However, the testing went failed. Can someone please fix my errors? 203.215.120.114 (talk) 12:21, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Typo in this hatnote

In this Philippine name. The family name is {{{first}}}. Shouldn't there be a comma and lower case "t" in "the"?--Trilotat (talk) 01:27, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree - the wording isn't grammatically correct but I don't know how to fix it. I'm going to figure out where to post a help query, I'll link to this discussion. Shearonink (talk) 16:54, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

I've posted a query at WP:TECHPUMP#Faulty template.... Shearonink (talk) 17:09, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Fixed it, I hope; also improved the documentation so that the optional "ph" parameter is explained. -- John of Reading (talk) 17:34, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Married women

Maybe an option for married women without maternal maiden name. The template readily assumes a martied woman has a mother's maiden name, when people born outside of the Philippines don't have these names. For example, Anne Curtis, she was born in Australia and therefore does not have a mother's maiden name. We can remove Ojales but the template won't allow it blank. It would ruin the hat note. 49.145.162.228 (talk) 04:55, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Extra space?

In the article Jennylyn Mercado, this template is used at the top.

It reads, In this Philippine name, the family name is Mercado . Can someone delete the extra space before the period? Thanks. —Bobbychan193 (talk) 02:18, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

@Bobbychan193:  Done -- John of Reading (talk) 06:38, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Filipino/Philippine name template (edited)

Hello! Can I ask you about the newly edited version of Philippine name template. I really edit the template by replacing the words "Matronymic"/"Patronymic" intead of "middle name" or "surname" to make it more shorter and more interesting as well.RenRen070193 (talk) 16:01, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Mty edited hatnote

In Philippine naming, the word "maiden name" and "surname" are commonly use to replace the "maternal family name" and "paternal family name" in the Philippine name hatnote, as it proved in this links below as it follows:

https://issuu.com/filipinasheritagelibrary/docs/catalogo_alfabetico_de_apellidos?e=18015266/13622223

https://culturalatlas.sbs.com.au/filipino-culture/filipino-culture-naming

https://www.esquiremag.ph/culture/books-and-art/surname-spanish-catalog-a00304-20191102

--RenRen070193 (talk) 05:06, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

@RenRen070193: So your point is? You keep changing the hatnote to "matronymic". Matronymics are not maiden names. Matronymics are based on the mother's given name. Philippine middle names are based on the mother's maiden name. We do not have a concept of matronymics. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 05:27, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

@Engr. Smitty Werben you stand is to reinstate this hatnote? You don't want to change that? RenRen070193 (talk) 10:06, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

@Engr. Smitty Werben Hello! Your stand is maintain the Philippines name hatnote? You don't want to change that? I just want to make this hatnote shorter by replacing "maternal family name" by "maiden name" and from "paternal family name" to "paternal name", respectively. --RenRen070193 (talk) 10:18, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

RenRen070193 Please stop. There is nothing wrong with the current revision. Your revision did not improve the information given. See WP:BROKE. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 10:20, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

@Engr. Smitty Werben Why don't you try to read the links above given??? The current revision is too long that is why I make a proposed revision why is shorter than the current revision. I don't want to make a chaos but you should just accept the fact that we should make change for the better. --RenRen070193 (talk) 10:33, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

RenRen070193 It's okay to shorten it out, but your revision gives the wrong information. The current revision is already correct. Your problem is that it is long. So what now? The information is still correct and you're the only one who says that it is too long. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 10:58, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

@Engr. Smitty Werben why don't you try to read an article taken from the link I've give to you? I hope you understand the context of an article. Good luck

Read: https://culturalatlas.sbs.com.au/filipino-culture/filipino-culture-naming

Can i replace the template?

Good day! There's a reason why i suggest to replace the current template to make it more simplier and not repeatable

- Replacing the term "paternal family name" by "paternal surname" instead

- Discard the term "maternal family name" but keep using "middle name" since these two terms are in the same meaning.

Kindly read the following links below:

• https://culturalatlas.sbs.com.au/filipino-culture/filipino-culture-naming
• https://www.esquiremag.ph/culture/books-and-art/surname-spanish-catalog-a00304-20191102

Thank you for understanding! --RenRen070193 (talk) 04:25, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

RenRen070193 Could you give a better reason for the change, aside from making it simpler? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The Philippine name is very similar (although not identical) in form with Portuguese names (see Cristiano Ronaldo for the example of the hatnote).
The middle name and maternal family name could be the same meaning for the Filipinos, but other nationalities would not get it right away. That's why it should be needed for the line to be "the middle name or maternal family name" because it gives the information that a Filipino middle name is based on the maternal family name (in contrast, American middle names are given to them at birth by their parents). ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 10:20, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

@Engr. Smitty Werben Excuse me. Do you remember the original template which the surname spell "ñ" as the same as letter "n"??? Why don't you try to revert, or we should adopt the Template:Catalan name or Template:Portuguese name then do it for little piece of revision instead? --RenRen070193 (talk) 10:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

@Engr. Smitty Werben To make a chaotic discussion end, why don't we try to replace Template:Philippine name by Template:Spanish colonial name in every individual article especially Filipino celebrities and public figures since my home country was a former colony of Spain for more than 3 centuries or 300+ years historically??? --RenRen070193 (talk) 05:04, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

RenRen070193 This discussion is getting out of hand. I'm just asking if there is something wrong with the information given by the template. All you're saying before is that you want to make the template simpler and shorter. Now, you're already talking about the Philippines and colonization. Just answer the question, is there anything factually, not aesthetically wrong with the template? ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 05:14, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

@Engr. Smitty Werben Definitely yes, I admitted there is wrong with the template. In fact, almost 4 or 5 years ago, I'm the one who suggested to replace the original one which is a template with a letter "ñ" in the surname, and I'm also the one who proposed the draft. This is my biggest mistake I didn't pay respect to my Philippine culture. That's why I should correct my mistake by replacing the current one. --RenRen070193 (talk) 10:01, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Permission to replace the template

Hello! I'm sorry for my late reply today. Can I ask your ermission to replace the template since the purpose of my proposal is to be more nic and meaningful to our readers especially the Filipino readers??? RenRen070193 (talk) 05:27, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't think there's anything that should be changed. The template's current state is correct. I don't understand your intention of making it more nice. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 05:47, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I would have planned to change this template to make it more realistic, instead of using "Philippine name" in the template, I'll just return the term "Philippine naming customs" that I used before. RenRen070193 (talk) 08:32, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

And why do you want to do that? ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 16:10, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Because for me it turned out to be more unique than any other template readers had read.

I'm the one to ask you, Yes or no, you just have to answer, are you okay with changing even a small template? I'll wait for your answer.

Good luck!

Good luck! RenRen070193 (talk) 20:52, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Here in wikipedia, we're here for factuality, not for uniqueness. We actually want article and template formats to be near consistent with each other.

Checking your last edit, why do you want to truncate the "or paternal family name"? It gives the information that the surname is based on the surname of the father. Why do you want to remove that? Also, why did you change the "middle name" into "maiden name"? Are you sure you know the concept of the maiden name? Your edits being wrong are the reason I disagree with them. You are open to make your case here in the talk page (which you are not doing by the way. You are just asking permission) so that we could make a consensus. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 21:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes of course RenRen070193 (talk) 02:36, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello! I reconsider the previous proposal of 203.215.121.30. Kindly read it first before you react.

An excerpt from @203.215.121.30:

"This name uses Philippine naming customs for married women: the middle name or maternal family name is _____, the surname or paternal family name is ______ and the marital name is _____."

The second alternative variant is for natural children (Diego Loyzaga for example): "This name uses Philippine naming customs for natural children. This person has no middle name, but the surname or maternal family name is ______."

And the third alternative variant is for natural children who are married: "This name uses Philippine naming customs for natural children and married women. This person has no middle name, but the surname or maternal family name is ______ and the marital name is _____.

I hope you consider my proposal. 203.215.121.30" RenRen070193 (talk) 12:18, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I disagree with the proposal for married women. A person can't have a surname and a marital name at the same time. If they have a marital name, then that means it is also their surname. The current version is much better, i.e. there is a birth middle name and birth surname, then after marrying, the birth surname becomes the new middle name, and the marital name becomes the new surname (which is really the case in the philippines).

For the natural children, I might agree that we should add "or maternal family name" to the surname to give information that the surname is based on the mother's surname (probably because the father was not present during birth). ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 14:39, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I already made the change for the natural children part. Explanation is shown in my edit summary. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 16:07, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

What about that other template that changed those other details?

So is it okay to just stay? Just simple answer me Yes or No only RenRen070193 (talk) 02:38, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Propose merging

Good day!

I'm sorry to say but Im going to delete Philippine name for the reason that this is very resemble to Portuguese name and instead I propose to merge that particular template to Family name hatnote. I hope you understand my decision to delete this. I'm really really sorry but my decision is final. Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RenRen070193 (talk • contribs) 20:32, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Is this a joke? Philippine name and Portuguese name are not the same. They are similar, but not identical. Do you even understand those words? They might be similar with the maternal family name-paternal family name format, but for the Filipino name, we have one surname only (the paternal family name) and one middle name (the maternal family name), wherein the Portuguese name, they have two surnames (usually), with the first part of the surname being the maternal family name, while the last part of the surname is the paternal family name. We encourage you to make a discussion, but you won't properly explain why should we apply the changes that you want. It's as if we have a language barrier here. Also, you won't even sign your messages, and you are here planning to do changes that would affect a lot of pages. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 21:06, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@RenRen070193: - I think both the Filipino and Portuguese name hatnotes should be merged with the general family name hatnote because the template appears to cover a wide variety of naming customs around the world, from Catalan/Spanish to East Slavic to Basque, Argentine, Dutch, German, Chinese, Congolese and so on. I don't see why the Filipino and by extension Portuguese names can't be added to that.

I.E - In the language parameter, we just put "Lang=Filipino" or "Lang=Portuguese" instead. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 15:56, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

@Clear Looking Glass that's a brilliant idea. Very good! So why we should try it? RenRen070193 (talk) 21:38, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

@RenRen070193: I'm sure CLG meant {{Family name hatnote}} and not this template. Your change which renamed a parameter broke over 2,060 usages of the template (according to a quick template search). Please properly assess your edits before attempting to make breaking changes again — editing a template does not edit articles' usage of it, and can lead to unintended output. Chlod (say hi!) 00:43, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

@Chlod What is CLG? And in what way can I edit the parameter of the template? I tried to edit the parameter but the editor of this template prohibited from doing it. I'm doing this several times but sometimes he reverted my edits. RenRen070193 (talk) 07:13, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

@RenRen070193: I meant Clear Looking Glass, who commented above. As for your latter question: don't. You get reverted because you are implementing undiscussed changes that have issues raised by other editors (see Engr. Smitty's comments and edit summaries). Wikipedia isn't one-sided; you need to stop and listen before re-adding changes removed (with good reason) by other editors. If you persistently add your preferred changes to the template, you risk getting sanctioned for edit warring. Chlod (say hi!) 10:00, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

@Chlod so did you meaning the template would stay in place, I mean without some change after the discussion?RenRen070193 (talk) 10:17, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

@RenRen070193: Discuss first, then change. Unless there is consensus to change or no contest to a change, do not make the change. Chlod (say hi!) 10:26, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

@Chlod Can I join in participating in the discussion? RenRen070193 (talk) 12:08, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes. Chlod (say hi!) 21:18, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Chlod: - Sorry for the late reply and I'm again sorry if I confused or mixed up the topic at hand. I was thinking about the Family name hatnote because it already encompasses many ethnic/cultural naming customs. But I see that this issue appears to have been corrected. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 03:12, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

It's alright. Was just a misinterpretation on RenRen070193's end. Chlod (say hi!) 03:14, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template: Philippine name

Template:Philippine name has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page.RenRen070193 (talk) 08:55, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

My propose version

can you allow me to make a edit of this template before I'm going to retire my account permanently? RenRen070193 (talk) 05:22, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

I think it's best if you sandbox your changes and get approval before any changes are made to the main template. Primefac (talk) 09:25, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok RenRen070193 (talk) 07:50, 23 August 2022 (UTC)