Template talk:WikiProject Women in Red

Inside or outside the banner shell?

I've just moved a WIR template to outside the banner shell, because that's where I've usually seen it, but I'm not sure I could cite chapter and verse if challenged. Is there a statement anywhere about where it goes? To me this seems like Headbomb's statement above, that the WIR banners are not the same as other project banners, justifying its special placement outside the banner shell. PamD 17:21, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

It could be in or out, but it's usually placed out. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 17:35, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

@PamD and Headbomb: This is an old thread, but I wanted to add that from my point of view I've been treating it as any other WikiProject banner. Whilst not wrong to have it outside of the banner shell, whenever I come across them I just let WP:RATER move it to inside of the banner shell when 3 or more such banners are present. -Kj cheetham (talk) 09:48, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Since it collapses like any true WikiProject banner when inside the banner shell, it does belong there. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:04, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

I have added a note to the docs that it should be placed inside the banner shell. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:32, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

archive

Lua error: too many expensive function calls.

Backtrace:

   [C]: in function "getExpensiveData"
   mw.title.lua:209: ?
   Module:Documentation:866: in function "makeExperimentBlurb"
   Module:Documentation:725: in function "_endBox"
   Module:Documentation:157: ?
   (tail call): ?
   mw.lua:527: ?
   [C]: ?

I removed this code from the documentation in an attempt to "fix" it. 4 years of links. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 17:02, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

(Out of date listings removed.)

@WomenArtistUpdates: Thanks for doing that. I've updated the table to present all years, but put the links in subpages. I've kept the past 5 years fully displayed, but those can easily be tweaked as the years go (just look at the template syntax). Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 15:51, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Merge proposal

Please see Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2023 June 23#Template:WIR — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:14, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Discussion at Template talk:WikiProject banner shell § Duplicate banner templates category

 You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:WikiProject banner shell § Duplicate banner templates category. ‍—‍a smart kitten_[meow] 00:56, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Banner location documentation

The documentation for this template currently says it goes directly on the talk page, near the top. Is there consensus to clarify on this documentation page that if there is a banner shell, it should go inside the shell? -Kj cheetham (talk) 17:21, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

I believe consensus is that all WikiProject banners should go inside the shell, but I'm not aware of specific discussions on this template — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:26, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

It's been mentioned briefly within various other discussions, e.g. Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_23#Template:WIR and Template_talk:WIR#Inside_or_outside_the_banner_shell?. My view is it should definitely be within the shell. Updating the documentation would help make it more consistent. -Kj cheetham (talk) 11:17, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I have yet to see any clear guidance re: which templates are to be used outside of the shell, and which are to be used inside the shell. Event specific or templates that indicate something more than the fact that an article is of interest to such-and-such Wikiproject often seem to be placed outside (e.g., {{WPEUR10k}}, {{WikiAfrica/Artgate}}, {{DYK talk}}, {{Translated page}}). How do these compare to the WIR event specific templates? Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 10:39, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

This template is literally using Module:WikiProject banner and is collapsable within a banner shell, so unless there is compelling consensus for it not be within the shell I see no reason at all why it shouldn't be. DYK for example is clearly not a WikiProject. -Kj cheetham (talk) 10:52, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Did you know may not be a WikiProject in the manner of WIR, but surely Wikipedia:WikiProject Europe is. As such, isn't an event specific template for Wikipedia:WikiProject Europe/The 10,000 Challenge quite similar to any one of the WIR event specific templates? -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 11:12, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

DYK isn't a WikiProject in any manner. WIR event specific templates are WikiProject banners. I'm not going to look in detail at the other templates you mentioned (and this is not right forum), but I would have imagined WPEUR10k should be a WikiProject banner too. There was a whole discussion about that already at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2021_May_10#Wikipedia_article_challenge_templates as a special case (only covering merging it into the higher WikiProject-level banner or not, which isn't the same issue). Other stuff exists. -Kj cheetham (talk) 11:21, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

We recently merged {{WPAFR10k}} into {{WikiProject Africa}} and {{WPASIA10k}} into {{WikiProject Asia}}. I would certainly support merging some others if there is a logical target — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:15, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

This is going off-topic for here, but I should note the likes of {{WikiAfrica/Artgate}} is based on Template:WikiAfrica/Share Your Knowledge which uses tmbox rather than a WikiProject banner, as WikiAfrica is explicitly not a WikiProject (Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa is separate, which is a bit convoluted in my opinion, though not worth changing at this point). -Kj cheetham (talk) 11:14, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Posted at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council#Africa — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:37, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Version which will accept multiple events

Some mock-ups are available of what the banner could look like in different situations at Template:WIR/testcases. The design ideas are:

• If just one event is in scope, then the appearance will be basically unchanged.
• If more than one event is in scope, then the events will be listed separately under the initial text. In this case the standard image is used as the main image, and any custom images are used in a smaller size next to their respective events.

— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:50, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Pinging @Horse Eye's Back @PamD @Kj cheetham @Rosiestep @JoelleJay @Ipigott for any comment — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Looks pretty good, no complaints from me, though I'm not familiar with WIR's workflow. – Hilst [talk] 23:09, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ: The sandbox templates look great - thanks for your work on this! I'm not a fan of File:Women who died in 2023.png, as it's hard to read the black "2023" against the red heart. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 02:40, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

• I take this to mean that it is now agreed that an article's pertinence to multiple WIR events can continue to be displayed on the talk page. This seems to be a step in the right direction. It also appears that if any of the above display options are agreed, there will be no requirement for contributors to change the way in which they add WIR events to relevant talk pages.--Ipigott (talk) 07:11, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

  Instead of typing {{WIR-197}} you will now be typing {{WIR|197}}. If there are multiple events you will be able to string them in the same template e.g. {{WIR|197|204|255}}. That is the only difference, but if you forget then a bot could do it for you. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:52, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Was also thinking the same about that 2023 text. Gonnym (talk) 09:38, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Image can be changed in Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/events, but that would obviously be a decision for the project to take — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:55, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Looks good! Gonnym (talk) 09:37, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I agree it looks good! I support this completely, in principle. Some minor comments:

1. For "One event in banner shell", seems to have lost the "edit-a-thon" text in the sandbox? I think it's better to lose it, especially when it's in the collapsed multi-event banner shell. Just want to make sure people are aware of that change.
2. "Women in Red" is no longer bold? (Just an observation.)
3. For the sandbox multi-event ones, not in a banner shell, I wonder about indenting the list of events a bit? Not sure what the convention is though.
4. How different would it be for people to create new events?

-Kj cheetham (talk) 11:13, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments.

1. Yes, a deliberate choice. Space is at a premium in the nested header.
2. Currently every link is bold, which seems too much. We should probably only bold the most important link. Do you think the project page or the meetup page is most relevant?
3. That would probably need discussing at the meta module, as it would affect all other banners
4. They would need to add the data to Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/events, which hopefully is intuitive?

— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:28, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

2. I agree don't want to overdo the bold. My initial thought is bold the event when it's a single one, and the project when it's multiple.

4. It's intuitive to me, but would still need some documentation explaining it to others. I'm not the target audience (as I personally never create any), so I'm probably not best placed to comment. I think people are very used to create individual templates though, e.g. Template:WIR-291. -Kj cheetham (talk) 12:37, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

2. Agreed and done

4. Will add instructions at Template:WIR/doc — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:42, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

2. Can I change my mind? The project is the most important; the meetup is secondary. This is consistent with the additional meetups not being bolded. It also matches the collapsed display, where the project is bold and the meetup is not bold. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:59, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Fine with me! -Kj cheetham (talk) 20:05, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

P.S. Regarding point 3, what about using the project icon as a bullet point for events which have no icon? -Kj cheetham (talk) 20:07, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

It might be repeated several times, is that okay? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:10, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Good point. Not sure. Best leave as is, can always look into it more if people don't like it as-is. -Kj cheetham (talk) 20:12, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Some kind of bullet point might be good though ... — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:14, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Something very simple, maybe even just •? -Kj cheetham (talk) 20:18, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I've put a small red circle in. See what other peope think — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:31, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Progress

For a small trial I have:

• Temporarily put the new version on the redirect {{WikiProject Women in Red}}.
• Converted {{WIR-10}} to a wrapper of the new version and substituted.
• Made a start on updating the documentation at Template:WikiProject Women in Red/doc.

I'll pause for a while just to make sure there are no technical aspects I have overlooked — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 23:23, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

This, as far as I can tell, will still bust every automation related to WIR maintenance, like Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Meetup/270#Did you know? articles, which rely explicitly on the presence of distinct {{WIR-270}}, {{WIR-271}}, etc... banners. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 23:45, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

That's handled by User:JL-Bot#Recognized Content isn't it? If the new banner isn't compatible or the bot updated somehow (whilst not breaking all the other projects!), it's not something I could support being rolled out. -Kj cheetham (talk) 12:37, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I have promised not to take any actions which will disrupt workflow, so will look into this. It seems we can use categories instead of template transclusion which might work better. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:00, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Has a bit of functionality also been lost in terms of alternative names for events? E.g. for {{WIR-10}}, {{WIR-W 2016}} was an alternative done by way of a redirect. What about the generic year ones like {{WIR 2015}}? -Kj cheetham (talk) 23:30, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

• WIR-W 2016 was just a redirect to WIR-10 so I don't think any additional support is needed. Note that since 2017 no additional aliases have been used.
• Yes I have not yet added the functionality for {{WIR 2015}}. I suggest something like |year=2015 but need to think about how it would work in conjunction with meetup parameters.
• Not sure how to deal with Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Meetup/00/2018 because it doesn't fit the numbering scheme of other meetups.
• Have changed the config for JL-Bot at meetup 10. As soon as the bot updates the content, we will know that the category based system works.

— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:25, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Template:WIR_2015#I_created/improved_an_article_for_the_#1day1woman_initiative._Which_template_should_I_use? seems to list some more recent aliases, though not many. For the years, what about just saying 2015 is the event/meetup number? On the assumption won't get to that number of actual events (though 640kb should be enough for everyone...). -Kj cheetham (talk) 18:22, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Please see last couple of tests on Template:WIR/testcases? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:55, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Looks ok to me for the generic years! For the 2018 homepage issue, maybe a hardcoded exception might be needed...? -Kj cheetham (talk) 21:00, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I think we might just use a quasi event number like 2018 as you suggested for this one — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:57, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

We now have our first example of merged banners in the wild: Talk:Josette Bruce — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:57, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Looks good to me personally, but I definitely think consensus is needed at the main WIR talk page (after dealing with any remaining technical issues you're aware of) on this trial before expanding it any further, as it's not very high traffic here. -Kj cheetham (talk) 21:04, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I might leave one further call for comments, but first I want to make sure we have all the technical aspects covered. The limited trial should satisfy this. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Seems sensible. -Kj cheetham (talk) 18:30, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

My analysis on the technical features is:

• /Article alerts will continue to work as normal because it uses Category:All WikiProject Women in Red pages -  Confirmed working
• /DYK will continue to work as normal because it uses Category:All WikiProject Women in Red pages -  Confirmed working
• Same for /Recognized content -  Confirmed working
• Event-specific recognised content (e.g. 270 and 10) will work when told to use the event category instead of the event wrapper template -  Confirmed working
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Metrics - in discussion with bot operatorbot operator does not foresee any issues

Is there anything else that we should be checking Headbomb? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:56, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Updated above. That's all my tests concluded — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:06, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the only part of this plan which is controversial is the combining multiple WIR banners into one. I believe the project will come round to this idea in the future, but in the meantime I will not be doing this part of the job. (I will leave Talk:Josette Bruce as an example but if someone chooses to revert that, then fine.) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:19, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Update: all banners have now been updated to the new version. I suggest we move the template (and this talk page) to the expanded (and more standard) Template:WikiProject Women in Red — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:47, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:53, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Bug

Slight bug I've spotted. Some editors tag non-articles with specific events, e.g. Category talk:Jamaican women artists. But the template behaves differently on non-articles and the info about the event is not displayed (except in nested version weirdly). So we need to look at this — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:48, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Think this is fixed now — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:40, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Adding year on collapsed display

Getting people's thoughts on adding the year of the event when in the collapsed version. For example the meetup might be #1woman1day but this is an annual event that happens every year. The year is shown in the expanded version, but would it also be useful to show in the collapsed version? If so, is the same true for all events or just the annual events? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:55, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Dear Martin, I am not an experienced member of WiR, but I feel that automatically adding the year from when a WiR article was created within this template, with or without any specific editing drive being mentioned by the article creating user, might be a good idea to keep the project and the articles created from it well maintained and sorted in the long run. Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 05:39, 2 February 2024 (UTC).

Please see examples on Template:WikiProject Women in Red/testcases, in particular One event in banner shell and Three events combined in banner shell. I don't think the repetition looks good on Women who died in 2023 (2023) but otherwise okay — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:06, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

What about not including the (year) when the end of the text string is the year? (Not sure if that would look wierd in a different way though.) -Kj cheetham (talk) 13:22, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

That might work (would just look a bit inconsistent with other events). My idea was to simply rename the event to "Women that died" then it would show Women that died (2023). But then I thought, what if the editathon actually happens in January 2024 (which is plausible). It would be very misleading if it showed Women that died (2024) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:16, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Good point, that's very plausible to happen! -Kj cheetham (talk) 18:28, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Well it hasn't happened in the last 5 years, so I vote we try it and we can worry about it later if it ever happens! — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:32, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

This might need to be revisited! The project has requested that the year (2023) be added back to the name of the event. So we now have the duplicated year when in collapsed form (see example below) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:24, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Image size

What do people think about making the size of the image a bit bigger? These events have some great artwork, it is a shame not to make more of it. Proposed version above — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:25, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

No response in a week.  Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:54, 2 June 2024 (UTC)